A talk with Baldakos...

[Tempus]

Its called being open minded and not trying to pre-judge someone before you have given them a chance to prove themselves. You have no basis in fact still for the conclusions you are drawing about he The Prophet and his motives. We know where Baldakos pledged his loyalties in the past and we also know that those loyalties can be turned.

The Mass had you bent over the barrel already and you guys were ready to sign over another city for it at one point in the night.

It asked for something realtively minor and disappeared instead. Therefore, it's motives seem to have been met. While it may nto be trustworthy, it seems to have bigger fish at the moment.

It could've had an entire city but instead settled for a portal? And you think some how it got less then what it really wanted? According to the history i have read, the Mass appeared after the Mist and quite possibly as a direct result of the Mist. If that is true, now that no one is releasing new Mist they would need another way to get to Dalaya. Who are you to judge what is minor? or its motives? Kaezul and Baldakos had the world bent over a barrel, but now that they're gone lets not worry about it anymore eh? Have you met logic? He's lonely. :sadf:

 

[moghedancarns]

WHile it (THE MASS) may not be trustworthy, it seems to have bigger fish at the moment.
It could have had anything it wanted, all it took was a portal. I am not sure how you take that to mean anything other than it got exactly what it wanted, or how you can possibly misconstrue what I said previously.


Where do you keep drawing the link between the Mist and the Mass. You are scared of them both, they have 4 letters, they start with M... they must be the same thing?

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The mists have not been unleashed in recent times. Obviously, something is wrong with the weapon or there would be no remaining cities. The weapon is weakening and possible too dangerous to Baldakos for Baldokos to fire.

Something scarey shows up. Suddenly the Betrayer shows up. Now, Mr. Kill All the Weak is going to save you all from the Mass. HOW DOES THAT POSSIBLY FIT IN HIS CHARACTER. But hey guys... we need to go to OleNag to do it. It fails, the people deal with the Mass.

Now, the "Prophet" shows up. The man is Jesus, he loves you, and only wants what's best for you, and would never use his unique power for his own selfish goals. I am happy you have built your little religion to worship him. Anyway, he thinks the best thing to go do is to go hoodwink the Betrayer into revealing the secret of the Mists and the Mass. You, semi mortal, will outsmart the basically Immortal and Omnipresent Betrayer, because you are just so clever... by going to the same place Baldokos WANTED you to go in the first place.

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Focus on what is between those lines, stop sidestepping the questions with arguements of semantics and pretended confusion. Are you really one of Baldokos's followers?

 

[Tempus]

Where do you keep drawing the link between the Mist and the Mass. You are scared of them both, they have 4 letters, they start with M... they must be the same thing?

According to the history i have read, the Mass appeared after the Mist and quite possibly as a direct result of the Mist.

Clearly I said they were the same thing ... :roll:

The mists have not been unleashed in recent times. Obviously, something is wrong with the weapon or there would be no remaining cities. The weapon is weakening and possible too dangerous to Baldakos for Baldokos to fire.

Its weaker but somehow now to dangerous to fire? Thats an interesting anti-logical conclusion.

Something scarey shows up. Suddenly the Betrayer shows up. Now, Mr. Kill All the Weak is going to save you all from the Mass. HOW DOES THAT POSSIBLY FIT IN HIS CHARACTER. But hey guys... we need to go to OleNag to do it. It fails, the people deal with the Mass.

Do you bother to read other posts or do you just dream up stuff to reply to in your head? No one thinks he is going to save us, but we are pretty damn sure he has information that can help us stop the mist and learn more of the origin and nature of the Mass. Good and Evil can align at times to prevent the destruction of the entire world eh? Or are you so closed minded that "OMG U R EVIL!1!!" Is all you can think?

Now, the "Prophet" shows up. The man is Jesus, he loves you, and only wants what's best for you, and would never use his unique power for his own selfish goals. I am happy you have built your little religion to worship him. Anyway, he thinks the best thing to go do is to go hoodwink the Betrayer into revealing the secret of the Mists and the Mass. You, semi mortal, will outsmart the basically Immortal and Omnipresent Betrayer, because you are just so clever... by going to the same place Baldokos WANTED you to go in the first place.

I don't worship him, rather I respect his words. He thinks the best thing to do is help the world to maintain its true path. He never asked anyone to hoodwink or reveal anything. He told us that there may be a relation between the Mass and the Mist and that our best bet on finding out is to seek out Baldakos. Why would he be immortal and omnipresent? Do you have any evidence or proof to substantiate that? Where do you come up with this stuff?

Focus on what is between those lines, stop sidestepping the questions with arguements of semantics and pretended confusion. Are you really one of Baldokos's followers?

I seek the true path of Dalaya, nothing more nothing less. I am no ones follower.

 

[Zarimus]

I am sorry, but how can that NOT raise all kind of red flags in your giant mammal heads that you never shut up about?

If you want to be taken even a little seriously, lose the insulting attitude. I appreciate you arguing a different viewpoint, but I'm losing interest in listening to you.

(ooc: And yes, I know you're roleplaying your leezard. I'm roleplaying my response.)

 

[JayelleNephilim]

Where do you keep drawing the link between the Mist and the Mass. You are scared of them both, they have 4 letters, they start with M... they must be the same thing?

The Mass was born from the mist. While the mist in itself was not wrong - it had little bearing on the shaping of the future, strange as it may seem - something went utterly, distasterously wrong in its making.

This is where most are drawing that conclusion ...

The mists have not been unleashed in recent times. Obviously, something is wrong with the weapon or there would be no remaining cities. The weapon is weakening and possible too dangerous to Baldakos for Baldokos to fire.

Wiz says, 'From the recent destruction of Kelethin, it is safe to presume it [the weapon] still exists, though noone knows how it works or what it is.'
Wiz says, 'Except that it is a mist that kills to the touch.'
Wiz says, 'Anything beyond that is pure conjecture.'

Well, we know that the weapon still exists. It could be broken, however, I highly doubt that's the case. If Baldakos and Kaezul are powerful enough to create/use such a weapon, they are clearly powerful enough to a) make another one, or b)fix the one the have now.

Something scarey shows up. Suddenly the Betrayer shows up. Now, Mr. Kill All the Weak is going to save you all from the Mass. HOW DOES THAT POSSIBLY FIT IN HIS CHARACTER.

It fits in his character because he is cocky and self absorbed! He will do what suits his best interests! I believe it is also in HIS best interest to destroy the mass and remove the mists. They were cleary undesired side effects of the weapon.

But hey guys... we need to go to OleNag to do it. It fails, the people deal with the Mass.

Where is this notion coming from? When did Baldakos or The Prophet EVER state that we needed to go to Nagthilan in order to discover how to destroy the mass or remove the mists? Clearly you are mistaken. I have heard talk from some of the Beaerer's that they assumed this is where they would find Baldakos, and thus went looking. The ONLY time we were TOLD to go to Nagthilan was when the mass came down and tried to gain passage throught the portal.

Now, the "Prophet" shows up. The man is Jesus, he loves you, and only wants what's best for you, and would never use his unique power for his own selfish goals. I am happy you have built your little religion to worship him. Anyway, he thinks the best thing to go do is to go hoodwink the Betrayer into revealing the secret of the Mists and the Mass. You, semi mortal, will outsmart the basically Immortal and Omnipresent Betrayer, because you are just so clever... by going to the same place Baldokos WANTED you to go in the first place.

(OOC: LAWL! John the Baptist would be a more accurate analogy, but putting that asside ...)

This is what it is to be a Bearer. It is to accept that your True Path exists, and seek it, hunt for it, and once you find it, to walk it. It is a path of self-fulfillment, a path of understanding. For each, the path will be different ...

The Bearer's of Truth is just that ... those that wish to bear the truth. Those that wish to find their true path. Nothing more and nothing less.

'Just as there is one true future, each of you have a True Path, a path to follow that will lend your assistance to the bringing about of the correct future, the determined future. In truth, every creature in existance has a True Path, but for many, it is minor, and varies little. A baker needs do nothing but continue to bake, but for those whose True Path involves battle and blood, it is more complex. There are actions along the way which might seem evil, or opposed to your views of the world, or equally may be too selfless for your taste. You may be asked to do these things, and again, you must choose which you value more. No hand can be forced in this matter.

This is why the Bearer's join together because they can not do this alone!

... stop sidestepping the questions with arguements of semantics and pretended confusion. Are you really one of Baldokos's followers?

(OOC: What??)

What questions have been raised that have not been answered already? Perhaps my friend you are just a baker that needs nothing to continue to bake, but I my friend, I am a Bearer of Truth, and my true path invovles battle and blood. It IS more complex. I have chosen to take a greater view. I realize that sacrafices are going to be made, and in the end I will know that it was for the good of us all.

 

[moghedancarns]

Baldokos led everyone that would follow to Nagthilan during the night of the Mass's attack, I believe. If he did not, in fact, this pretty much defeats my entire line of reasoning. However, the expedition failed and the players instead dealt with the Mass in negoiations.

Baldokos is truely neither Immortal nor Omnipetent, that I am aware of. However, he is considerablly older and considerablly more knowledgable than any other remaining alive, to the point of seeming near these things. He is the Betrayer, and adept at the art of manipulation of others, both through magical and mundane means. He walks the streets freely, and none notice him. We have seen him charm one of our own, to take complete control over her and remove her free will, at least for a time. It is safe to say that he is skilled in the arts of Enchantment. He commands a mist from his hands that can slay even the most powerful adventurer instantly. He claims the ability to make it a final death.

The Prophet does not ask you to do anything. You are correct. The Prophet provides clues. You take these clues and proceed on your own. Is there any doubt about what these mean to you. Is there any dissent in what you must do to foillow these clues? Is there any doubt that you will follow these clues? The prophet sets the stage for you to come up with the desired ideas AND to think these ideas or your own. Once the clues are released, the outcome is assured. The difference between this and him telling you to do something is that you hold the instructions more tightly, believing them your own. However, you are still doing as exactly what the Prophet desires. These two points are where we are arguing semantics.


The main question I am proposing that is sidestepped is, have you considered the exact nature of the Prophet?

Have you considered that Baldokos, in his long study of Enchantment, is able to illusion himself to appear as the Prophet?

Have you considered that Baldokos has placed the Prophet under his thrall and fed him the information to give to you?

Have you considered that Baldokos has decieved the visions into the Prophet's mind, making him believe that he is a Prophet?

Have you considered that the idea that the most wonderful man ever to live thinks that if you go ask the world's greatest Betrayer for help, he will just give it is just a little naive? Does the previously stated idea that you are just "using" the Betrayer to get the info seem any less naive?

Unbiased, you have to argue this without the words of the Prophet as a basis to defend your belief in the Prophet.

Finally, have you noticed any clues related to the Prophet himself that indicates that he may ask you for platinum, actively watches the heavens for celestial events or otherworldly visitors, that outside forces would try to dimemish his works, or has Kool Aid or other soft drinks in his possession?



((Froglok, actually. My Prophecy is all of Kaezul's army camped outside Sadri Malath. On a related note, the proper name for a Froglok in SoD is a Taldorian, correct? I am not certain, but am sure we are not Guktans here))

 

[Zarimus]

Baldokos is truely neither Immortal nor Omnipetent, that I am aware of. However, he is considerablly older and considerablly more knowledgable than any other remaining alive, to the point of seeming near these things. He is the Betrayer, and adept at the art of manipulation of others, both through magical and mundane means. He walks the streets freely, and none notice him.

We have as much reason to believe what you say about Baldekos as we do about the Prophet. We have no secondary sources for our information, there's only what has been directly revealed to us. All we can do is maintain a healthy sense of wariness and proceed as if our information is correct.

Meta-gaming for a moment here, we as players have no ability to do detective work other than accepting the in-game clues and speeches. There is no profit in endlessly second-guessing the lore information dispensed to us. If we are given false information I'm sure it will be done "fairly", that is, there will be clues to point in the correct direction.

 

[Darian Maliken]

I cannot speak for anybody else but I for one feel one of two thigns are true.

We are either being used by both sides in an attempt to either weaken the other

Both are in reality on the same side and wish to keep us in the dark either because it would be unwise to risk tipping their collective plans so soon or because neither wishes for one of thier own game pieces to interfear with their well lain plans.

As a result of this the only thing I have to suggest is foolish I know, but we must get both the prophet and Baldakos in some form of diolog, or at the very least wring more than half hinted clues and or self importaint posturing to get a few much needed answers. After all when the game's stakes are this high arrogence and self importance or even the need to remain cryptic have a place in things. Then again what do I know, I'm just a poor farm boy that likes his bones a little too much for everybody else's comfort.

 

[moghedancarns]

((So, basically, your decision masking process is completely governed by the idea that you always do waht the NPCs say because gaping holes in the story are obviously Wiz getting sloppy and not the blinking light clues that you have no way to look for. I am not saying you need to find his junior year english teacher and his kindergarten best friend to verify that the guy exists, I am saying, maybe you should ask the guy a few question, listen to the answers, listen to HOW he answers, watch what he does when he answers, find out if he even can answer instead of blindly following the guy to the kool aid pitcher. How many hours could the NPCs make you do jumping jacks in Mistwoods just because the said too?))

 

[Allielyn]

We have as much reason to believe what you say about Baldekos as we do about the Prophet. We have no secondary sources for our information, there's only what has been directly revealed to us. All we can do is maintain a healthy sense of wariness and proceed as if our information is correct.

Meta-gaming for a moment here, we as players have no ability to do detective work other than accepting the in-game clues and speeches. There is no profit in endlessly second-guessing the lore information dispensed to us. If we are given false information I'm sure it will be done "fairly", that is, there will be clues to point in the correct direction.

For the most part here I agree with you, but I am not sure what you mean by "we don't have the ability to do detective work." In essence, that is exactly what Thizik did when he infiltrated Nagthilian. To see what he could see. Yes, he talked with Baldakos, but if he hadn't taken the initiative, that talk would never have happened. To imply that we can learn nothing unless either Baldakos or the Prophet spoon feeds it to us is silly, I think. Though the devs may be busy, they may notice a man or two going out of their way to do detective work and drop clues for them.

In any case, my main purpose in posting was to give you Thizik's maps for Nagthilian. To be honest, seeing is not as easy as doing, but it's a good start.

so, I dont know why the img tags don't work, but copy and paste the linkys and you will find the images.

 

[Zarimus]

I meant detective work outside the parameters of what the GMs offer. You can't find a clue they didn't leave there for you. You can't get a speech that they didn't write from an NPC they didn't place. Some of the clues they offer have to be accepted at face value. I can well remember being a GM for pen & paper games where paranoid or just plain contrary players over-analyzed hints and clues until I just had to "break the fourth wall" and tell them this was a legit clue.

So again, I'm not saying we should accept everything given us as true without caution. Certainly Baldekos has been portrayed as inherently evil and duplicitous, what he says should be considered a lie until proven otherwise. The Prophet however first called us all in a dream, the same way we were all called to "The Dream" and given the main quest. He has given us a mystical means of identifying each other and communicating. These are powerful reasons for our characters to lend credence to what he says.

 

[limitedthoughts]

Who says Kaezul truely left?