A few comments on the patch

Anonymous:

The skill issue is very true. This wasn't really the intention, and it's something I intend to adjust. The problem with the entire blue/red thing is that fighting a red at 10 isn't the same as fighting a red at 40.

First of all, do keep in mind that high 40's mobs are geared towards low 50's players. That's one of the major things which was changed. It's understandable if you want to kill reds, but the point is that reds should be tough. Quite tough. And thus they will have certain requirements, such as a tank that will not get ripped sideways.

I understand the level deviance problem though. I will have a look-see into this.
 
Yeah, red's should be difficult Wiz, I'll agree with you there. The problem I'm seeing is blue's are just as terrible tough, and take much too long to kill. In a 6 person group, it took us around 10 mins to drop a blue con giant in Stormkeep. I'm not trying to make it sound like "omg change it back or else I'll quit!" but I've seen my play time, drop clear throught the floor since this change occured.

The patch change made duoing a thing of the past, while the new leveling treadmill has killed my ability to get groups. I see where you're coming from trying to balance things out a little more, but keep in mind Wiz, alot of people playing here did so because it was so much different from live, where before they could look for a group, and if it didn't work they were able to duo. Now we're seeing an influx of people looking for groups, not finding them, and logging, like live used to/still is.

Overall personally I'd like to see atleast blue mobs lowered to around where they used to be, DPS to me is still weird, seeing Nijah do constant hits for 6's and 7's to me seems silly.

Just giving my 2 cents on the patch.

Darwin/Jord/Nijah
 
Basically, I'm not after you. I just want to make a fun, challenging, and interesting game.
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K, Wiz, it's your game, but if you want to make change to actually to be fun, challenging and interesting game to EVERYONE, I am leaving my opinion here...

New resist stinks AND New exp stinks

In every patch made necro class becoming harder to play as, it is hard to solo without fear (broken 4 lyfe). Using Pet Tank strat was the best way we can do next to root/dot strat (mana pool). Our spec pet has around 1800 hp, not that many, Shadowbond and Renew Bones can hold pet's hp up somewhat, since Shadowbond drains out hp so we have to cast Bond of Death or direct lifetap to make sure that we are staying alive. This patch hugely crippled necro soloing skill. Bond of death resist so often, direct lifetap doesnt alway full drain anymore.

Exp? Wtf, I can get 5 AA a day on eqlive = same ammount of time on WR, about 1 AA.

WR used to be my #1 fav server, but not anymore because of this patch. RA is now my #1 fav.

Sorry to those people are not seeing me online often or not online at all. I wish good luck to those people playing Necro class (except Sean).
 
Okay, people. I've seen your complaints and your issues. What exactly do you want here, though? All mobs lowered HP? All mobs lowered resists?
What?
 
I can't say that I know if exp has been lowered or not, because I'm working on 61-65 exp and I know that this is MUCH slower than pre 60.
I haven't tried to get AA exp to compare to previous exp gain.
I have notised tho that mobs live longer now than earlier, it is harder, but not TOO hard, but it is harder = exp is slower than before.
Maybe give npcs a little less hp than now but a little more than earlier.
Resists as they work now is VERY bad, npc's resist way too much.
I tried to DD solo a lightblue mob with my clr, 50% of the casts was fully resisted, and about 70% of the ones that hit was partial resisted.
I had full mana when I started and with doing root - DD with my clr when I had killed that light blue mob I had 10% mana left.....
That is way off, I know clr isn't a DD class, but still, it shouldn't drain 90% of the mana to kill a light blue mob.
Atleast I don't think so.
So sugestion is that npc resists need to be lowered on all pre level 60 mobs, keep em as they are on 60+ mobs but npc's lower than 60 should have ALOT less resists.
Just my 0.2$
 
In response to what you reccommend Wizzy, I think that mob hitpoints make more sense now than they did before. Some of the upper trash mobs in Mielechs seemed to have very low hitpoints. I think current mob hitpoints make some sense, at least pre60 level mobs(I havent fought many 60+ mobs since patch). What I would like to see is a reduction in resists(which seem too high imo) and a upping of xp on 51-54 mobs, maybe a upping of xp on all mobs from 51-59. From what Ive been hearing about groups killing 60+ mobs, the xp on them is extremely good.

Khalid 62 Crusader
 
Alright. First of all, I just lowered resists for NPCs considerably.

Secondly, of course level 60 mobs are good exp. It's slightly harder to hunt something that doubles for 500 than something that doubles for 200. Risk vs Reward. :p
 
EXP at 50's or so is not great. I live in the deep and duo wtih 52 monk and shaman.

Some of the mobs (servitors mostly) are very difficult. However, DUOING, I still get less than 1% per kill much of the time in general in that zone. This is with a human character getting an exp bonus.

What's the problem? The problem is that this zone has been BY FAR the best experience I've been able to find.

I generally kill 1 mob per 1 minute and 30 seconds to 2 minutes. In around 2 hours of playing, I got about 12-15% experience at level 52.

I'm not saying there needs to be drastic changes, but I think 1% per kill duoing in a zone with mid to high 40's at my level is not unreasonable, especially considering that any other zone that is reasonable for me to exp in doesn't give me anywhere near as good exp for the amount of effort involved.

In summary, the mobs aren't overly difficult (except the servitors which USED to be around level 50-51), however, exp is still not = to the risk, especially with those.

I don't dislike making it more difficult to level, but duoing mobs within 8 levels of you (in a zone with a HIGH exp mod) should give at least 1% per kill.
 
You know what I do believe the main "problem" with the changes is though?

People expect everything served on a silver platter.

They want groups formed for them, for god forbid they'd form one of their own, or try anything non-conventional, since OOCing "LFG" ten times and then going "Stupid patch" is much easier.

They want to kill the biggest, baddest, reddest thing without sweat, and yet get the reward for doing so. They want to take out Progenitors with a level 51 warrior and a level 34 cleric healing, because god forbid they'd hunt anything designed for their level and gear.

There were/are valid isssues with the patch, but everyone is raised on the WR where reds were blues and blues were greens, and now stand horribly shocked because things are actually living up to their cons and levels.

You do not need a "balanced group for anything". You can duo mielech entrance. You can solo/duo most of DN. You can take a three-person group to akheva and skim out the shadows, as long as you duck the wraiths. You can solo SV. You can tackle practically any mob in Sseru castle with four people. You can ransack up to chef in a half-assed group.

I wonder if the huge exp mods, the entire "reward for hard" concept I tried to go with wasn't a huge mistake. Because clearly people will never ever ever ever ever settle for anything but the best, and give up tons of EXP hours just sitting around waiting for it.
 
Wiz said:
You know what I do believe the main "problem" with the changes is though?

People expect everything served on a silver platter.

They want groups formed for them, for god forbid they'd form one of their own, or try anything non-conventional, since OOCing "LFG" ten times and then going "Stupid patch" is much easier.

They want to kill the biggest, baddest, reddest thing without sweat, and yet get the reward for doing so. They want to take out Progenitors with a level 51 warrior and a level 34 cleric healing, because god forbid they'd hunt anything designed for their level and gear.

There were/are valid isssues with the patch, but everyone is raised on the WR where reds were blues and blues were greens, and now stand horribly shocked because things are actually living up to their cons and levels.

You do not need a "balanced group for anything". You can duo mielech entrance. You can solo/duo most of DN. You can take a three-person group to akheva and skim out the shadows, as long as you duck the wraiths. You can solo SV. You can tackle practically any mob in Sseru castle with four people. You can ransack up to chef in a half-assed group.

I wonder if the huge exp mods, the entire "reward for hard" concept I tried to go with wasn't a huge mistake. Because clearly people will never ever ever ever ever settle for anything but the best, and give up tons of EXP hours just sitting around waiting for it.
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go Wizzy! :) I've seen this stuff in any free online game server, always! Dont think it's just in your case it happens ;)
By the way, you said that some of the issues about the patch are actually arguable, meaning that you are going to willingly discuss to change them or not... which issues are the ones you are going to see if you need to fix them or not?
 
I fixed resists, I fixed the issues with any skill < max being a zillion misses, I fixed knight DPS, I brought HP down on low 50's mobs, I tweaked partial resists, I speeded up AAEXP...

The current issues I need to look at is 55+ mob HP, and exp comparisions. How much more a 60 should give than a 50, and so on.
 
As of 27 / 04 / 2004 Resists are still awfully high.

Over 3 hours today in DN I had a dmg parser running which also happens to show spell resistances etc. At the end of it:

Total Spells Casted: 387
Complete Resists: 119 (just over 31 percent)

Unfortunately the parser doesnt recognise partial resists but from what I have seen, on average I would say less then 10 percent of my procs dd's land for full.

----
Now onto exp issues.

Before patch, at lvl 60, 1 Kobold Paw = 3% of debt xp.
After patch, at lvl 60, 1 Kobold Paw = 1% of debt xp.

Before patch, at lvl 60 in Dragon Necropolis, 1 solo Slime kill = 4% AA.
After patch, at lvl 60 in Dragon Necropolis, 1 solo Slime kill = 1% AA.

Before patch, a Grey Assasin in Dragon Necropolis, hit ~ 130 max.
After patch, a Grey Assasin in Dragon Necropolis, hit ~ 226 max.

a Grey Assassin SLOWED by 50 percent now has ~90 dps and yields only 1/3 of the xp that he did before the change.

----

I just dont get it. How are these changes making the game more fun?
More importantly, how is this balancing RISK vs REWARD?

Resists have increased. NPC damage has increased.
Melee damage decreased. Risk has increased. Reward decreased. :eek:

Am i missing something here?
 
Problem comes from my gain of levels. It was unbalanced before and I was getting exp too fast. Now that it's slowed down to a more reasonable level, it just seems too slow, when in actuality it's balanced.
 
Now onto exp issues.

Before patch, at lvl 60, 1 Kobold Paw = 3% of debt xp.
After patch, at lvl 60, 1 Kobold Paw = 1% of debt xp.

Before patch, at lvl 60 in Dragon Necropolis, 1 solo Slime kill = 4% AA.
After patch, at lvl 60 in Dragon Necropolis, 1 solo Slime kill = 1% AA.

Before patch, a Grey Assasin in Dragon Necropolis, hit ~ 130 max.
After patch, a Grey Assasin in Dragon Necropolis, hit ~ 226 max.

a Grey Assassin SLOWED by 50 percent now has ~90 dps and yields only 1/3 of the xp that he did before the change.
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Manipulate statistics much?

Before patch, at lvl 60, 1 Kobold Paw = 1200exp.
After patch, at lvl 60, 1 Kobold Paw = 200exp.

Kobold paws were nerfed.

Before patch, at lvl 60 in Dragon Necropolis, 1 solo Slime was level 53-55.
After patch, at lvl 60 in Dragon Necropolis, 1 solo Slime is level 46-48.

I guess you forgot to mention that they are much easier now?

Before patch, a Grey Assasin in Dragon Necropolis, hit ~ 130 max.
After patch, a Grey Assasin in Dragon Necropolis, hit ~ 226 max.

a Grey Assassin SLOWED by 50 percent now has ~90 dps and yields only 1/3 of the xp that he did before the change.

This one is the most amazing of them all. A Grey Assassin post-patch yields 3-4% exp solo. Pre-patch, 1-2% solo. The 1/3rd was the slime, which is a totally different mob, something you obviously hoped everyone would overlook.

Please stop trying to bullshit me. I'm not a moron. Come back when you have some real, non hand-picked statistics.

As for resists, I don't know what you experienced, but as a level 60 naked character with 100 CHA, I got 9 full resists/100 on a level 50 mob. Did you sit and cast on a golem to manipulate those facts too?
 
Wiz,

Frankly, your hostility surprises me. I have not manipulated any statistics whatsoever to the best of my knowledge. They are all correct so far as I have seen on MY character hunting solo and grouped in DN over the past few weeks.

To suggest that I would for the sake of this, is silly. I neither have the time nor do i care enough to sit and make up bullshit here all day long. I was only trying to shed some light on the experiences that I have had both pre and post patch.

The kobold paws xp nerf is information that I obviously would not have access to and since it co-incided with the lvl 65 patch, the obvious reasoning would be to think it was because of the xp change.

The Slimes - so what you're saying is you lowered their level and thus xp is lowered too to be inline with a mob of that level - Ok that makes sense.

The Assassin i could very well be wrong on, that's only something that someone with your inside info would be able to tell or not. From the solo kill I got of him today when Dumachum LD'd on me, I saw only 1% from him - perhaps I could have been group bugged or the xp was somehow shared between us - i dont know he wasnt in group when I got the kill xp.

What i remember from post patch about soloing stuff in DN, Slimes used to give me 4% (they were the best), snakes 3%, beetles 1 or 2%, Rats 3%. Hence since I got 1% off the assassin today, I assumed the xp has been cut by 1/3 on those.



Resists as they work now is VERY bad, npc's resist way too much.
I tried to DD solo a lightblue mob with my clr, 50% of the casts was fully resisted, and about 70% of the ones that hit was partial resisted.
I had full mana when I started and with doing root - DD with my clr when I had killed that light blue mob I had 10% mana left.....
That is way off, I know clr isn't a DD class, but still, it shouldn't drain 90% of the mana to kill a light blue mob.
Atleast I don't think so.
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- Fjodor 26/04/2004 (yesterday)

I guess Fjodor must have sat and casted on a golem to manipulate his statistics too....
 
bobothedino said:
Resists as they work now is VERY bad, npc's resist way too much.
I tried to DD solo a lightblue mob with my clr, 50% of the casts was fully resisted, and about 70% of the ones that hit was partial resisted.
I had full mana when I started and with doing root - DD with my clr when I had killed that light blue mob I had 10% mana left.....
That is way off, I know clr isn't a DD class, but still, it shouldn't drain 90% of the mana to kill a light blue mob.
Atleast I don't think so.
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- Fjodor 26/04/2004 (yesterday)

I guess Fjodor must have sat and casted on a golem to manipulate his statistics too....
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No, he didn't, because Wiz fixed it and patched it after Fjodor's post. Resists were changed once again yesterday.
 
You did not include any real information on previous Grey Assassin - New Grey Assassin in your post, which led to the rather simple conclusion that you were using the slime as an example for all mobs. Additionally, 4% was only off the level 55 slimes, the very top end spectrum of slimes.

All in all, it seemed like you were being VERY selective with your facts. First of all, are you talking about AAEXP now, or level exp? Which level exp? And what level were you before? Exp requirements for levels were not raised. Exp requirement for 1 AA point was cut down by 33%. So I still don't get all this "exp is so much slower".
 
As i stated,

Slimes used to give me 4% (they were the best), snakes 3%, beetles 1 or 2%, Rats 3%. Hence since I got 1% off the assassin today, I assumed the xp has been cut by 1/3 on those.


You did not include any real information on previous Grey Assassin - New Grey Assassin in your post, which led to the rather simple conclusion that you were using the slime as an example for all mobs
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Because I dont have raw figures like you do, I can only post what i know from observations, as a player character. No, the slime was not used an example against all, as I have stated the individual xp gains from each mob type, above.


As for resists, maybe they need to be looked at one more time because they still seem wacky.
 
:hug: http://www.wintersroar.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1264 <~~
here wizzy sounds like huggy bear...

:brow: This thread he sounds like the fucking gestapo...I can understand why less issues are being brought up. ::braces for wizzy to drag me off to babi yar::
Me personally I can't find a tank with enough agro anymore unless they're using a 15for 20 1hb or a ytraz.
I have repeatedly tried to get our war that damned yabadabadu whip from akheva...closest we got was his area b4 getting called to ST...that was b4 patchs...Also did a run in SG looking for that agro whip.
The closest we can find for agro weapons are the slavemaster whip and the tink hammer, and those dont hold nerely enough fucking agro anymore. Harsh words dont seem to work so without decent weapons and a lowered dps , I spose we must kite mobs now, and sit ping pong them =P :finger:


Lokdar Lorduk
60 ranjah
Guildleader of Ruin
 
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