JayelleNephilim
"Helpy Helper"
Grizabella said:
Gonna have to agree 100% with ya on this one.
100k charm
- Thread starter seferon
- Start date
Gonna have to agree 100% with ya on this one.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
guyvertoo said:
They had one last time people complained about the 36k charms. Ie the reason it has 80 mana now.
BeittilBonker
Dalayan Adventurer
Hmm, now its 1FT & 120mana... but in the process you lose lose 15sta/3ac/10resist points...guyvertoo said:
gtoo
THE NEMESIS
BeittilBonker said:
+541plat for FT1 25mana
+36k for 1 more ft and 55mana +stats
+65k for 1 more ft and 120mana +stats
+114k for 1 more ft and negative 10mana and runes of healing
+323k for 1 more ft, 160mana +stats and runes of searing
+647k for idk more ft, 250mana +stats and stuff
looks pretty linear except for the 200k charm, which needs something done with its mana. The jump from 36k to charm of energy seems quite large actually. I suggest dropping the energy by 20 mana, and bumping up holy charm by 20-30 mana.
BeittilBonker
Dalayan Adventurer
My point (and Gladis') tho is... stats on the 100k charm are only partially usefull for a caster. 9 AGI/DEX? wth am i gonna do with that? 9CHA, always nice, 9WIS... i am maxed out anyway!
+4 to all resists, pretty lame (4x5 = 20...) where as my current charms has +30 DR alone... and then on the 215k we suddenly find +15 all...
so we go from 30resistpoints @ 36k to 20resistpoints @ 100k to 75resistpoints @ 215k...
I agree with the mana tho, 200 is pretty much a lot... 180mana on the 100k would do, but it just needs its resist boosted & dex/agi replaced by sta.
+4 to all resists, pretty lame (4x5 = 20...) where as my current charms has +30 DR alone... and then on the 215k we suddenly find +15 all...
so we go from 30resistpoints @ 36k to 20resistpoints @ 100k to 75resistpoints @ 215k...
I agree with the mana tho, 200 is pretty much a lot... 180mana on the 100k would do, but it just needs its resist boosted & dex/agi replaced by sta.
gtoo
THE NEMESIS
So you dont want agi and dex, stats that are stupid hard to get as a caster, but you dont want wis/cha either, because you are 'capped'. Would you prefer it had no stats at all? You ask for sta, but sta is the 3rd easiest stat to cap as a caster.BeittilBonker said:
As for the resists, sure they seem low but i would much rather have my resists spread out over all of them, especially mr,cr,fr, than having 30pr, which is mostly useless.
BeittilBonker
Dalayan Adventurer
I do want cha syduck:
syduck:
Mythryn
Dalayan Master
The mana thing probably is an issue, as is the AC with Barrier charm. Investing another 66k for 5 more AC? What? And yes, i realize that there's another 95 hp and 12saves, but the low AC is why i'm not going to buy a barrier. It's crap and people that buy it don't buy it because its good, they buy it because they don't feel like farming another 100k.guyvertoo said:
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
guyvertoo said:
We do, and the general consensus seems to be it's crap now and not worth buying. With numerous people having bought it before the nerf expressing regret they ever did such. I'm not saying an upgrade on the 100's should not have happened. No one against the nerf on the 36k has done so. But there are far more ways (and more valuable and enticing ways) to do this other than nerf the previous with a slight upgrade on the next tier.
gtoo
THE NEMESIS
like what?vistachiri said:
there were 3 pages of people saying 36k needed an adjustment, and obviously the higher powers agreed. You honestly dont think 2ft and 80 mana plus other stats is worth 36k? then i dont really know what to tell you. I see a general exponental line of progression, broken only by the ammount of mana between the 100k and 200k charms.
Glamrin
Staff Emeritus
ok back to the focus here for a bit..
What function do the charms fill in the game? - They are there to remove cash from the game
What is necessary for them to serve that purpose? - There must be some persons who consider buying them/ wants to buy them, a charm that noone is interested in buying should probably just be removed, or changed so that it fills that purpose.
so for the 36k charm although I dont personally like the change from ft 3 to ft 2, I suppose there will still be people who will buy them, although yes the amount of people doing so might just go down a slight bit after this change.
for the 200k charms... there really isnt a problem, people find them worth their while.
for the 100k charms though... although the melee charm might need some boosting I still found it good enough to buy it. the caster charm however, just isnt good enough that I would buy it with its current stats, and I dont think that many will consider it at all with its current stats. the mana and hp is alright nothing wrong with that... the basic problems is that the ac go down from the 36k charm, and the resists are out of line (too low) + wrong stats for the people who need stats and arent geared well enough (lets face it for some people the stats dont matter at all, lets focus on the people they might help though).
hidden stats helps for charisma, stamina and agility which would alll be nice for a caster.. the dex really isnt that important though.
36k charm: +30 to one resist
100k caster charm: +4 to all resists
100k melee charm: +12 to all resists
200k healer charm: +15 to all resists
200k melee charm: +20 to all resists
500k charm: +25 to all resists
as can be seen from those stats, resists on the charms arent linear or in line at all.
if we are to put the 100k charms in same ratio towards each others as the 200k ones the 100k charm should have +8 to all resists... +4 just isnt in line.. +8 would make the upgrade from 100k melee/caster charms to 200k charms about equal upgrade to resists.
adding lesser runes to te 100k charm would definitely make me buy it.. Im not quite certain whether or not it would make it to powerful compared to 200k charms or not though, it wouldnt make caster charm overpowered compared to melee charm though and with lesser runes on the 100k charm there wouldve been no reason for lowering the 36k charms to ft2.
What function do the charms fill in the game? - They are there to remove cash from the game
What is necessary for them to serve that purpose? - There must be some persons who consider buying them/ wants to buy them, a charm that noone is interested in buying should probably just be removed, or changed so that it fills that purpose.
so for the 36k charm although I dont personally like the change from ft 3 to ft 2, I suppose there will still be people who will buy them, although yes the amount of people doing so might just go down a slight bit after this change.
for the 200k charms... there really isnt a problem, people find them worth their while.
for the 100k charms though... although the melee charm might need some boosting I still found it good enough to buy it. the caster charm however, just isnt good enough that I would buy it with its current stats, and I dont think that many will consider it at all with its current stats. the mana and hp is alright nothing wrong with that... the basic problems is that the ac go down from the 36k charm, and the resists are out of line (too low) + wrong stats for the people who need stats and arent geared well enough (lets face it for some people the stats dont matter at all, lets focus on the people they might help though).
hidden stats helps for charisma, stamina and agility which would alll be nice for a caster.. the dex really isnt that important though.
36k charm: +30 to one resist
100k caster charm: +4 to all resists
100k melee charm: +12 to all resists
200k healer charm: +15 to all resists
200k melee charm: +20 to all resists
500k charm: +25 to all resists
as can be seen from those stats, resists on the charms arent linear or in line at all.
if we are to put the 100k charms in same ratio towards each others as the 200k ones the 100k charm should have +8 to all resists... +4 just isnt in line.. +8 would make the upgrade from 100k melee/caster charms to 200k charms about equal upgrade to resists.
adding lesser runes to te 100k charm would definitely make me buy it.. Im not quite certain whether or not it would make it to powerful compared to 200k charms or not though, it wouldnt make caster charm overpowered compared to melee charm though and with lesser runes on the 100k charm there wouldve been no reason for lowering the 36k charms to ft2.
Allielyn
*Pony*
Glamrin said:
Well I disagree somewhat. When you get to the point where every slot is filled with raid gear that can't be replaced by high end droppables, the money in your bank is really only useful for several things:
-twinking alts
-buying potions and augs
-buying a high level charm
Thus charms become a plat sink not because people would normally look at the price and say "oh that's worth 36k" but because people look at the item and KNOW there's absolutely no other way to get an upgrade for that slot.
From there, the only difference between people buying the 36k vs. 100k vs. 200k vs. 550k is the amount of cash they perceive they can reasonably earn in a given amount of time.
Some issues here that should be considered before we consider certain charms "balanced" or "unbalanced" - should the progression be linear from charm to charm vs. price? Or should there be diminishing returns with each additional charm? Should this "linearity" or whatnot apply to every single aspect of a charm (+mana, +stats, +resists, +ft) or can some aspects be switched for others? When a major effect is added to a charm (Runes of Healing) should that be considered a separate bonus or should it be fair that other aspects be toned down to compensate?
It appears to me that we're all talking past each other until we agree on these questions. (And given the nature of the internet, I doubt we'll agree on them any times soon =P)