Y helo thar +50 resist mod on charm

Thinkmeats

Thinkmeats

War Is Good For Business
Is this intended? I thought it was my imagination / I was unlucky when I went charming after the med change but I was unable to do jack, so I just wrote it off as bad luck. It kept happening, I checked the parser, and word of command sports a lovely +50 resist mod. Zero was bad enough, but livable, when the other CC spells got adjusts; +50 is just silly. Checking the druid spell--I didn't recall the name of the necro one--saw that it got a +50 mod as well, so if it was an accident, it effected them as well. In any case, could this please be fixed?

Thanks for your time. I didn't buglist this because it struck me as less of a bug than either a typo or an unexpected change, not a bug per se. I'll admit I fear the worst--that this was an intentional change--which would make me very sad, because it's highly unwarrented.

edit, oh, and please please please please if this was on purpose don't make the CC spells more resistable and not tell us it killed me a couple of times =(
 
They all have +resist mods on them. Bard songs have like, +75. It was part of the changes to make charm less of the soloing powerhouse that they once were. Bard songs especially so.

This being said, I'll look into it and see if it should be re-evaluated with the last batch of resist changes.
 
I'm not sure. I'll find out and do more research about it. Just hang tight and try not to make a fuss. I hate fuss.
 
I'm doing pretty good for myself I think! Anyway I'll wait till you get back to the thread, but the short version is that a resist mod on charm is either not going to do anything or it will make charm worthless, there isn't really a middle ground, but the reasons why are kind of complicated and would take lots of words to describe. Also since the haste cap was put on charm it was fine and didn't need any more nerfage.
 
Thank god it falls into the "doesnt hurt much" area, then. Basically, the way it goes, either charm can be generally expected stick reasonably, or it can't. This changes from mob to mob / zone to zone, and chanter to chanter, based on how often the chanter can tolerate fails, how MR the mob is, and so on. It's a pretty sharp threshold; either it's worth it or it isn't. A resist adjust on charm doesn't make charm weaker, it makes charm usable in fewer places. I'm curious--when you said there's a minimum amount a mob's resists can be reduced to, in what order are adjusts applied? That is, are debuffs applied and checked vs the minimum and then the spell's adj goes in, or vise versa?

edit: As an interesting aside, the biggest thing the resist adjus would hurt would be charm as CC--that is, using word of command as a mez with benifits and killing the pet after pulls.
 
I'll second that.. just abit of histroy on it though since it happens to parallel here.. in another world for years charm was pretty much useless.. handy and kinda a tinker toy but pretty much not that exciting.. then on a nice expansion it became a powerhouse.. then later on it got evaluated and was deemed to powerful and got slapped down from godly to good.. It's always been a troublesome spell line to balance decently.. the only good solution i've seen done to it was to use custom dmg tables to it to make it good, useful as another way to cc, decent dmg more than a normal pet, but not super god mode like a certen orge quad hitting 612s rapidly in a far far away land. I dont know how easy that would be to program here and what not but trying to balance charm on MR is pretty hard without just making it useless / attrative to use outside of just screwing around.

Just a note on its current form... I back the hell away and stay far back.. this pet is not something I want near me at all ever because even with max cha and the working/nonworking (heard many things about the hidden str aa) pets are breaking often and quiet randomly or flat out resisting often. In its current form I would not want to use this in a group as it is 700m, mez is 160 and an indangerment having it in close proxemity and being very pissed off at you. Where as a mez+memblur is along the lines of 160+160+160+350 and no risk vs 700+350 and high risk.

Now there is a safe(r) way to xp even with charm like this.. but you need a specialized group to handle the pet and they need to be on the ball.
1 enc 1 shaman 1 ranger/druid/sk for tash,charm,pet haste/malo,sow,pet healer/pet snare,puller. I've done it before and with malo I dont have much trouble at all and its decent xp.. not spectactular.. but forget solo xp which I do believe is wiz's intention with this, or at least not solo xp without very high risk of death.
 
Wiz said the changes have been in for four months (wasnt the resist change earlier than that? I did a lot of resist adj checking then, I'd have thought I saw it then, is there any chance the change lingered unimplemented until more recently?), and if they have, charm's in no danger. The question is merely academic.
 
I think its been that way the entire time I started.. its good as a solo utility as is and comes in handy for this and that.. I got a few things I do use it on mind you again, solo, hehe but not for xp
 
The other option is that the way tash+malise work vs the way resist adjusts work had the charm change go in without me ever noticing--I favor extremely low MR mobs, and there's a minimum mobs' resists can be reduced to. My debuffs may simply have been eating the charm, and my recent escapades could have been horrendous bad luck--the bad luck had me check the parser, then the +50 made me post this thread.
 
i will use charm to solo from time to time if ai cant get a group. biggest thing i have done is just learn to deal with the string of resists :(
 
I've actually been gathering some data on bard charm resists as I feel charm balance has been tipped the other way and now it's just more efficient to chant kite. Be great if the staff looked into it as this takes me a long time to gather sufficient data. First mob/zone I checked thoroughly was Eastern Wastes. Jamethiel vs Snow Cougars (way green to me). 46 resists in 104 attempts. 44% resist rate. (@232 charisma).

Could you please include the recast time on bard charm in your evaluation? The higher resist rate combined with the change to the recast time (now ~20 seconds) has really hurt charming both in grouping and solo'ing situations.

I've even tried using -58 mr worth of debuffs before I charm. It helps, but I still see quite a surprisingly high resist rate on mobs I was able to charm easily way back when.
 
Charm suggestion:

Have damage to and from the charmed mob cost mana.

Pick a ratio (very much like a nuke or DoT). If a charm is 3 damage per mana, then every point of damage delt by or delt to the charmed mob costs the charmer 1 point of mana.

This makes charm act more like other forms of magical damage-dealing -- the cost is in purportion to the effect.

RP-wise, the creature strains against the charm when the charm causes it to be hurt, or when the charm causes it to attack other creatures. ("Why am I doing this?")
 
Yakk said:
Charm suggestion:

Have damage to and from the charmed mob cost mana.

Pick a ratio (very much like a nuke or DoT). If a charm is 3 damage per mana, then every point of damage delt by or delt to the charmed mob costs the charmer 1 point of mana.

This makes charm act more like other forms of magical damage-dealing -- the cost is in purportion to the effect.

RP-wise, the creature strains against the charm when the charm causes it to be hurt, or when the charm causes it to attack other creatures. ("Why am I doing this?")
Click to expand...

IF the ratio hit to mana is 3/1 that is a lot considering top end mobs hit for around 200ish meaning you lose about 65 mana per hit? Ouch unless I'm reading your post wrong.

Anyways I like using charm because of the large increase in DPS that the mob provides, it usually causes some problems when you are in the middle of CC and charm breaks or what have you but I would honestly say that I haven't seen a huge amount of resists any different from any other spell out there, mezzes in general seem to resist about the same rate imo.
 
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