Wiz Thurg Items

M

moghedancarns

Dalayan Beginner
Something is either broken or hideously underpowered about these items.

Focus of the Glacier
Slot: Fingers
FOCUS EFFECT: FOCUS OF FROST (2% TO COLD SPELLS)
CHA +10 WIS +10 INT +10 MANA +35
RECOMMENDED LVL 45
TYPE 3

Manacle of Shielding
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: WRIST
AC: 14
Effect: Runeshield (Combat)
STR: +4 STA: +4 AGL: +4 DEX: +4 WIS: +4 INT: +4 CHA: +4 HP: +40 MANA: +40
Recommended level of 45
WT: 0.6 Size: SMALL
Class: WIZ
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 2: empty

Both are copied directly from the wiki.

First is the ring. The stats are not so impressive as to not be easily replaceable, but they are not horrible. Some more mana or something would be nice, but we can live with it. The effect, however, is useless. First, it is not 2%... the effect is 1%. A 1200 point nuke without it hits for... 1212. If I blow my entire mana bar on Icy Spear of the Soloist, the most efficient single target standard Ice spell I can find... I can do an extra... ~160 damage. Even if it was 2%, that would still be less than a single 5mana nuke cast. You may bring up that it stacks with Damage Increment, and you would be correct. Can you imagine the laugher or outrage if it did not? As the affect works on only a single school of spells, one would think that across an entire mana bar of the target, intended audiance, this would provide the effect of one additional spell, or roughly an 8% value. Sustained DPS wise, Mana conservation 1 would have roughly twice the effect of the current effect. I have not tested them, but I have to assume the other 3 rings are similarly broken.

Bad as the ring is... it is still the GOOD wizard thurg; the bracer is ... I am having a hard time trying to understand what was intended with the bracer. Effectively, it is the same 4int/4cha bracer of the chosen you get for like 15pp off a listsold with 40 mana/hp tacked on it. Upgrade? Sure, maybe, if you were still wearing that, and a lot of people were, but at the same time, the thurg quests are like the home run of upgrades for causual players, and this ain't that. First, thier are a bunch of stats... ac14. Nice... same as my robe. Wearing cloth, it could be ac140 and it still would not change much in a fight. How many "points" did ac14 cost me, itemwise? What the hell am I going to do with Dex? With the STR, I can carry another mastercrafted weapon. Thank you stamina, for those 7 hp. Did I say 14 ac, I forgot about agi... 15 ac. ((Yeah, i know the WIS is free). Even the aug... slot 2 no doubt... I cannot help but think that I somehow got a paladin's bracer on my purest of casters, the wizard. So, yeah, I can actually use the 4 int and 4 cha... the same thing every wizard has at level 20. What's that? Effect? What effect? A 200 point rune? Ain't that precious... that's a whole 2/3rds round of damage against a light blue while soloing. That would be fairly useful, if the effect ever actually worked, or was a instant clicky with a hella short recast. ((in fact, when asked, other people assume this is the case, which they say makes it useful)) But no, it is a combat proc. On a bracer. Technically, that means it should go off whenever I cast a spell... ANY spell. I got the bracer at level 59 or 60. I am now about 4 kills from 64. The bracer has proced MANY times. Total. Once, I was casting blades of the magi. Once, I was casting the O'Kiel's Levitation. And the other times, I was casting Runeskin/Spellskin. Now, it might have wanted to proc more, but I have a class item, with a combat proc, that procs a buff, that does not stack with one of our own buffs. Did you believe that if you made it proc lesser shielding, we would not get the joke? Has anyone ever seen this proc when they cast a DD? Why have I been peridotless for a long stretch and never seen this proc, but ti procs several times a night when I cast... dun dun DUN my Shieldskin. That would be a funny coincidence, but I fully believe this item only procs on BENEFICIAL spells. Problem is... I don't cast that many beneficials. I am a wizard. I do detrimentals. the only benefical I cast with any regularity is Spellskin... the very buff it does not stack with. Even if it does proc, what was the plan here? I could click the dang starfall for a 200 point spell rune 30 levels ago.

Scrap the whole damned bracer and start over... with the idea that the bracer will be used by a wizard. DI4 would be useful. Clicky Harvest would be useful. Proc Clarity, I mean, we always have KEI, but at least it is not a spell that I can self cast. Anything that either gives me more mana, or does more damage, would be fine. If you have too, make them stack and put 4% on the ring and 4% on the bracer.

I just cannot imagine this was intentional.
 
Wrist procs are supposed to go of on detrimental spells. See Bracer of Everburning Flame.

However many are not working right...see Wizard Thaz Bracer.

As for the rest of your post, ya those items dont get me all excited but I am still not clear on the intended lvl ranger for the quests. i thought it was 45 roughly, and at that lvl, a working rune proc on detrimentals wouldnt be bad at all.
 
The minimum level is 45, for those with high level friends willing to come help them out with a twink.
A good group of 55s can usually handle the fights, but rare is the 55 group, and rarer still a 55 group in the location with your drop.
Too solo it with occasional assistance from friends, you need to be 60s, if not 65.
 
I cant speak to how these items compare with other items attainable at the level they are intended for in those slots but I do know you will never see 8% (or even stackable 4% on each) when the top raid tier effects only give 6%. The effects are intended to give you an small increase in your damage output and not to make said item irreplaceable. I will note however that you are wearing both items so they must have been an upgrade to whatever you had before. Also when you consider the items dont look at each stat like it is all the item is giving you; its a bunch of bumps to various stats that all effect the overall potential of your character.
 
That, or I am wearing them so that I can compare their actual in game contributions and abilties instead of theorizing based their paperdoll stats.

The bracer... I was wearing the often disregarded first tier Draconic Silk, and I had to think about if it was an upgrade... I added a little bit of mana and 40hp, but I lost on saves. I have to think a thurg item should not be compared so easily to that.

As for the Ring, NO ONE can sit there and tell me that I would not be better served by an Insignia of Newport in that slot. The ring's DPS increase does not compare favorably with clicking Gem Shards.

As a shaman, you know that even increasing a stat by 40 has no or virtually no effect unless it is a stat the class makes primary use of.



Each might be a piece of a greater whole, but each must be evaluated for which pieces makes the best whole.
 
These items seem to be on par with other classes' Thrug quest rewards. I don't know why you think Thrug rewards are supperior to other items you could get.
 
Your complaints about the ring are nonsensical at best. The focus is more than good enough to carry the weight of the item and if you don't get why a "more damage, stacks with everything" is good then you're free to wear something else.

However, I agree with you on the wrist. Sylara is incorrect: wrist procs that are benificial are intended to *only* proc with beneficial spells, and wrist procs that are detrimental *only* proc with detrimental spells. Therefore, putting a benificial proc on a wizard wrist is a little mis-targeted.
 
Thinkmeats said:
However, I agree with you on the wrist. Sylara is incorrect: wrist procs that are benificial are intended to *only* proc with beneficial spells, and wrist procs that are detrimental *only* proc with detrimental spells. Therefore, putting a benificial proc on a wizard wrist is a little mis-targeted.
Click to expand...


Also it isn't terribly hard to make the rune proc on detrimental spells which would be quite nice for a wizard and in line (just my 2cp). About the ring - 2% focus that can be attained at the level those can be attained is pretty cool and by no means underpowered.
 
Since wizards are Fire and Ice, why not add a Fire +% like the ring has to the bracer? Improve it's utility to the wizzies and open the door to more than just + Ice damage.
 
Thinkmeats said:
Sylara is incorrect: wrist procs that are benificial are intended to *only* proc with beneficial spells, and wrist procs that are detrimental *only* proc with detrimental spells. Therefore, putting a benificial proc on a wizard wrist is a little mis-targeted.
Click to expand...

Spell my name right next time :p

Its a shame, the rune proc on detrimentals for a wizard, would be useful.
 
The Thurgadin necro collar blows that bracer out of the water. Matter of fact I'll say the necro collar is above and beyond all the other caster non-ring Thurg rewards. Recovery 3 AND Companion Health 4? Enchanter cape, wizard bracer, and magician boots pale in comparison.

As for fire dmg increase, the magician ring has that.
 
At the risk of sounding too much like that discouraged catchphrase, I support this (Danku's) idea.

For one, it lends a sense of balance to the Wiz Thurg quests in relation to each other. Also, it does serve as a good replacement for the admittedly awkward current effect.


On another note, the ring seems fine as is, and the Insignia of Newport argument, while it might be a good start, fails to show the Wiz Thurg ring as insufficient since you can wear both simultaneously. A second example might help frame the argument nicely.
 
Stop comparing the 2% Cold Damage increase to other focus effects.

The entire point is that it STACKS WITH all other focus effects. So while DI4, Mana Cons 1, Casting speed 3, or w/e else might be better one on one, you can have them ***AND*** the cold focus.

The bracer proc does seem a tad out of place on a pure damage oriented class. I would say giving it a (low) chance to proc concussion would be alot more fun and useful.
 
The Focus does not carry the weight of the item. In a fight with a standard xp mob possessing 8k hp, the ring will add about ~30 damage when using Frostflame.

Using an AOE to threekite, the combined damage add is 240 damage, spread over three mobs for ~80 damage that fight.

Using Icy, with it's unexplainable 12 second recast, it will add ~75 damage to the fight.


I agree, adding MORE damage is good. However, the added damage in this case is not effective damage. It does not reduce the number of casts required to kill. It saves me no mana. It saves me no time. Adding 100 damage to a 2k cast is noticable. Adding 20 damage is not. If I blow my whole mana pool on a raid mob, the increased damage in this case is equal to a single melee hit.


As for comparable to other Thurg items, please point out the thurg items it is on par with, other than the other INT caster items which i have already stated were likely broken as well.

Thank you on the Bracer, however.

Hmm, more posts.
A rune proc is not valuable because we have a rune spell of our very own, that does not stack, and it for MORE of a rune, and has mana regen included.

PLEASE NOTE. The ring is NOT 2%. It is 1%. It makes a cast of 1200 into 1212. Not 1224... 1212. 1%. Other DPS classes have DPS increasing items. Please point out the DPS increasing item others get that only increases the damage by 1%.
 
I am pretty sure that your range items focus and the rings focus do not stack. Since they are both cold nukes but I could be wrong. Also I see you have Damage increment 3 currently, do you normally have a newport ring in place of the Glacial ring? If so then you are lowering your DI from around 3.5 to 3 when you remove it, and not getting a true reading on the power of the ring.
 
moghedancarns said:
A rune proc is not valuable because we have a rune spell of our very own, that does not stack, and it for MORE of a rune, and has mana regen included..
Click to expand...

Whatever guy. I dont need to be told about wizard spells but maybe you do.

Since at the lvl you can get this item, you have Diamondskin, which adds no mana regen and eats a dot. But ya...a 200 point rune that uses no reagent and essentially has 0 cast time sure would be shitty right?

I am not saying its the greatest thing ever and useful always, but it isnt meant to be.
 
Manluas said:
Also it isn't terribly hard to make the rune proc on detrimental spells which would be quite nice for a wizard and in line (just my 2cp).
Click to expand...

It's much harder than it sounds. We'd have to add a unique spell for the wrist and it would have to be detrimental, which means you wouldn't be able to click it off. Alternately, we could add a fake spell that would recouse the rune onto the wizard, and that's exactly as clunky as it sounds, plus I'm not even convinced it would work (since the recoursed effect is self-only, it may simply end up runing the mob).
 
Cryogenic Focus, Chillburn, and Glacial Channeling all stack, actually. I have tested each two parts seperately, and never get the value I get from all three at the same time. However, in saying that it is 1%, i mean that unless I am getting the oddest set of coincidental partial resists ever, or totally missed something obvious, that I get a 1% increase in damage when using nothing but DI3.... no Cryo, no Chillburn.

If you are testing it, and getting 2%, then I appologise, and I wholly conceed to your superior testing ability and tools. But as far as I can tell, I get 1%.
 
Incorrect. I just tested it.

Using Ancient: Destruction of Ice at level 65 with no AA's or gear except the focus items listed:

Base Damage: 1353

Dmg with Insignia of Newport: 1488 ( This is +10%)

Dmg with Force Wand: 1474 (This is +9%)

Dmg with Focus of the Glacier: 1380 (This is + 2%)

Dmg with Kil'Iyal's: 1366 (This is +1%)

Dmg with Focus of the Glacier & Kil'Iyal's: 1380 (This is +2%, because they DO NOT stack)

Dmg with Focus of the Glacier & Force Wand: 1504 (This is +9% +2%)

Dmg with Focus of the Glacier & Insignia of Newport: 1517 (This is +10% + 2%)

You are just seeing a 1% increase because you already had 1% on you ranged item that DOES NOT stack. and you are also losing 1% when you take off a Newport ring and just have the Force Wand for DI.
 
Then I stand corrected and did something horriblly wrong along the line. I would have sworn I had taken off the dang Cryo, but obviously, I did not.

You have my most sincere apologies, and I thank you for corrrecting my error.

If anything can be done about the Bracer, I thank you doubly.
 
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