[Wiki] Let's talk Lists

[Rari]

So, let's talk about the Top 5.
And the Active Top 5.
And the Legacy Top 15.
Oh, and the Tomes Leaderboard.

Or really, let's just talk about the Top 5 because I would like to remove the additional lists and take us back to just the Top 5.

There are a lot of reasons. I can write a book about the reasons to this. Quickie reasons: 15 being too many to maintain across all classes, 'Legacy' implying banned characters should be included, 'Active' being a useless definition, and Tomes without class distinction being laughably useless. If nothing else, I would rather have one very well-maintained list rather than splitting the time of active editors.

I moved the Top 5 to the wiki five years ago, and I think that along with this change, it is time to give the list a small visual update. Check it out. Here is a link to the current Top 5 if you want to look at the at the same time.

Comment, use the poll, and tell me what you think of everything. Based on community feedback, changes to the wiki can be made. Probably decide what needs doing by this Sunday or once this thread gets canned, whichever comes first.

 

[Tevinter]

top5 was fine as it was as just a single list on the wiki. top tome count is pretty meaningless and i don't care if it stays/disappears. your proposed thing looks really clean though, A+

 

[Jmayzak]

I kind of use top 15 as a means of gauging different gear options throughout a classes tiers, as sometimes the top 5 are identical. But i'm a newer player.

 

[sabuti]

I kind of use top 15 as a means of gauging different gear options throughout a classes tiers, as sometimes the top 5 are identical. But i'm a newer player.

i would beware of this. usually those > top 5 characters are just bad and looting anything with their class on it

 

[Nwaij]

I like your new version @Rari. Only thing I'd change is get rid of red checkbox for shamans and add tjeir quest thing into the grey checkbox for other classes. No real reason to have that extra color there.

 

[Rari]

I like your new version @Rari. Only thing I'd change is get rid of red checkbox for shamans and add tjeir quest thing into the grey checkbox for other classes. No real reason to have that extra color there.

Good suggestion, Nwaij! Mask was separate just because it wasn't a spell, but that distinction probably doesn't actually matter. Wonder how other people feel about that. Shamans, TELL ME YOUR FEELS.

Edit: I've updated my demo page to reflect this change.

 

[AngryCow]

I kind of use top 15 as a means of gauging different gear options throughout a classes tiers, as sometimes the top 5 are identical. But i'm a newer player.

This was more or less the idea of having a longer list. Being able to see more of your class progression through-out T10+. The usefulness of having a top5 on the wiki is dubious at best, but I figured that removing it would cause some angst. The original split was due to how the wiki rules were written and was an attempt to reconcile the issues. The plan I had for the wiki was to scrap the three current lists once the dust had settled a bit, make a Top 10 with rules that were modern and let it go at that.

 

[Rari]

This was more or less the idea of having a longer list. Being able to see more of your class progression through-out T10+. The usefulness of having a top5 on the wiki is dubious at best, but I figured that removing it would cause some angst. The original split was due to how the wiki rules were written and was an attempt to reconcile the issues. The plan I had for the wiki was to scrap the three current lists once the dust had settled a bit, make a Top 10 with rules that were modern and let it go at that.

Since that 'dust' was caused by performing the original split without consulting the community, not listening to the feedback from the follow-up thread, and then poor interaction with an active editor, I think the path forward needs to begin with a public discussion and then go from there.

As for the 10 versus 5, that should be part of the discussion. My personal preference remains at 5, as I remember when the list was 10 on the forum and it had the same issues as 15 does on the wiki - too long to be relevant for several classes, and requires twice as much upkeep.

If a tiered BIS list per class is something that people want, extending the leaderboard isn't the way to solve that desire.

 

[Jmayzak]

Make a "Load Random Character Fomelo" page.

 

[cpoff]

I've said a few times that it'd be more practical to just have a "Top 5 items by slot" list that is not necessarily ina particular order, and have a list for each class, though it'd require a bit more work. This being in response to the idea of having gear to look at by class for newer players. Really though, there's not much value in it anyway since all loot is raid loot, and outside backgearing-like things in the top guilds, you aren't killing targets for specific loots typically. You basically just kill anything that your raid/group can kill that gives loot that your raid/group can use.

As for this change, the list itself is of no consequence anyway, but your change is definitely a good one, Rari. It's much smoother in appearance.

 

[Grimpus Christ]

Top Active and Legacy lists are dumb. Maybe expand Rari's top 5 to 10 for those that want to see a little more gear variety. And Grahf your forum account is a decade old. I'm pretty sure you're beyond "new player" status.

 

[Jmayzak]

I guess my forum duration is a bit misleading; I quit in 2010? at level 57 before I knew anything about top 5. Kunark expansion was still slated to be released?

Ive had a different fascination with the history of the server since my return. The top 15 gave light into a different avenue to explore character history.

You also can see on the top 15 list that certain classes are heavily populated While others are not, namely clerics and respectively Shadow Knights.

Im fine with either though

 

[sabuti]

Top 5 is good and it should stay that way imo. No reason to reinvent the wheel

 

[Ezie3205]

I pretty much think the whole thing is stupid and meant to help jerk off the people who have already thrown a shoulder jerking themselves off. Top 5 is specifically for epeen as some people on those lists have gear that isn't droppable anymore or as a member of the community I wouldn't consider active. It is also pretty much the same people with the same gear and fairly unlikely to change.

Lets call this shit what it is "Legacy top 5" players who have been banned or have gear that isn't available anymore that you'll likely have to play instead of your main when you join a top tier guild to keep pushing content you wont see gear from for 4 months.

"Top 5: 3 mains and 2 alts from the same people on 2 or 3 other lists"

There is an enchanter on that list who has bonded t10 tanks instead of one of two t11 monks, one with a vah back, then argued that there wasn't an -aggro component on the spell. The list is useless. If you want to make a good list, do Top 3 items for gear slots per class.

I think the most aggravating part of all of this is that there is Admin wasting their time on this bullshit vanity instead of actually making the game better and more fun.

 

[Paxit]

Gear leaderboards are kinda silly. Keep them at 5 or whatever but I would like to see things like who has the most quests done , who has the best kills vs death ratio , who has earned the most fame , who has the most combat modifiers , who has contributed to wiki the most , who has the most tomes completed. Think outside the gear box a bit more, just a few ideas that might be searchable through the database.

 

[Kedrin]

...some people on those lists have gear that isn't droppable anymore

...or have gear that isn't available anymore

Could you use an example? The only person on the list I can think of that has something currently not dropping is Reehs with his legs, and apparently he isn't even #1 any more.

EDIT: oh, yeah, Xach the #5 SK has an ear that no longer drops. Still trying to see why this was so important that it was brought up twice.

"Top 5: 3 mains and 2 alts from the same people on 2 or 3 other lists"

Some people play more than others, how is this a reason to not have a Top 5 list?

There is an enchanter on that list who has bonded t10 tanks instead of one of two t11 monks, one with a vah back, then argued that there wasn't an -aggro component on the spell.

This list never had anything to do with skill. Note: I am on the list.

Top 5 is specifically for epeen

Fuck.

 

[Kedrin]

Gear leaderboards are kinda silly. Keep them at 5 or whatever but I would like to see things like who has the most quests done , who has the best kills vs death ratio , who has earned the most fame , who has the most combat modifiers , who has contributed to wiki the most , who has the most tomes completed. Think outside the gear box a bit more, just a few ideas that might be searchable through the database.

RIP https://shardsofdalaya.com/leaderboard/

 

[Kedrin]

who has the most tomes completed

I think the case she was trying to point out in her first post (sorry to put words in your mouth) is the fact that some classes have a clear advantage over others in tomes available to complete.

Rouges currently have 4 more class tomes that are available to them that have never been taken out of the game as they should have been. (let me know if this has been fixed.)

Pure Melee get one more tome via quests when others get a spell. (Codex of Melee Discipline)

Classes who have yet to have their third tome line included into the game.

Other problems, I do not feel like getting into at the moment.

who has contributed to wiki the most

1) Rari
2) Rari
3) Rari
4) Rari
5) Rari

 

[Rari]

I am now going to go ahead and update the wiki as I indicated in my OP. I will be moving the Legacy Top 15 into Marthog's personal user space (he can do with it as he sees fit from there) and I will provide a link to that in the Top 5 discussion page for anyone looking for it.

I will gladly accept any proposals for how to implement a gear suggestion by class guide. Previous attempts have had larger scopes (basically class guides with armor guides attached) but have never really gotten off the ground or quickly fell out of date. I had a long conversation with Juff night before last and neither of us could come up with a feasible design at the time, so I do not have a demo or proposal to present here at this time. Due to the nature of loot in this game "BIS" is something we say a lot but isn't particularly tangible, since each slot depends on the contents of others. One suggestion had been adding a "suggested for class" to items, when it is an item often good for a particular class (or multiple classes,) and then having that data feed back into a page for each class and sorted by tier.

 

[Jmayzak]

ty