Why was Archery Damage Changed?
- Thread starter Xairo
- Start date
Re Archery Damage
From what I have gathered, a well equipped 60 ranger with full archery AAs could manage 250 dps with archery, and 100dps with their weapons (Meaning very very well equipped, etc.) I don't know about you, but 250 is outrageous
But Wiz is still rebalanced, now the damage seems to be too low. Give him time to work it out and give him some feedback. Feedback is always nice
From what I have gathered, a well equipped 60 ranger with full archery AAs could manage 250 dps with archery, and 100dps with their weapons (Meaning very very well equipped, etc.) I don't know about you, but 250 is outrageous
But Wiz is still rebalanced, now the damage seems to be too low. Give him time to work it out and give him some feedback. Feedback is always nice Aye, doing 250DPS with a bow and unlimited arrows, why would any ranger ever melee again? And, as "sanock42" pointed out, other classes would find it completely outrageous. Though yesterday's archery "refinements" were a bit drastic, it was based on the fact that you actually do 100% more damage with AM3. Wiz has to try and keep the high-high-end archery more in line with other melee classes' DPS, taking for granted that the rangers already have AM3. However, this puts those from level 1-51 (and those without the AM abilities yet) at a huge disadvantage.
Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of middle ground. The only viable solutions that I can see would be to return archery to the way it was (and/or make it correspond with melee, maybe slightly better) then disable Archery Mastery completely (maybe increasing the effectiveness of the Trueshot discipline (though this might be pointless depending on the Styles timeframe)). Else, if it's even plausible, the AM ability could be changed to provide a different benefit... possibly increasing the chance to score a critical hit with a bow or possibly adding a small chance to double-shoot or something similar.
As it stands now, however, I don't think any ranger is going to spend 18+ AA points in order to make their bow as good as their weapons.
Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of middle ground. The only viable solutions that I can see would be to return archery to the way it was (and/or make it correspond with melee, maybe slightly better) then disable Archery Mastery completely (maybe increasing the effectiveness of the Trueshot discipline (though this might be pointless depending on the Styles timeframe)). Else, if it's even plausible, the AM ability could be changed to provide a different benefit... possibly increasing the chance to score a critical hit with a bow or possibly adding a small chance to double-shoot or something similar.
As it stands now, however, I don't think any ranger is going to spend 18+ AA points in order to make their bow as good as their weapons.
Isnt the whole concept of a rangers skills is his "Bow"? I played a Ranger to take effect of using a bow and contributing serious damage to a mob. Not just melee like a warrior all the time. Our ability to do serious damage with our bow should be our attribute as a ranger. Now if its a point of Rangers being over powerful...I can understand and relate, but we need to look at other classes to...one in mind being the magi. His pet can almost out tank/dmg any melee class /shrug.
Now dont get me wrong I am not complaining beacause it helps my guild/group if we have a magi that has that pet beacuse the mob goes down that much easier. I just have a hard time accepting the Archery Nerf as it is...I now hit with my 28damage/32delay bow on the average now in the 50's. And my melee weapons outdamages my bow extremely. I think the point is if you can earn that many AA for the AM skill then you should be rewarded with a seriously damaging archery ability....one point needs to be remembered fletching has not been implemented so arrows damage is limited some what.
I just dont want someones panties getting in a bunch and in-turn causing our (rangers) archery skill to be nerfed where there is no reason to even use it at all. (now dont misunderstand me...I am sure Wiz will not let that happen, I just want to express my concerns for the class that I love to play)
Anyway just my opinion on the matter /shrug.
Now dont get me wrong I am not complaining beacause it helps my guild/group if we have a magi that has that pet beacuse the mob goes down that much easier
. I just have a hard time accepting the Archery Nerf as it is...I now hit with my 28damage/32delay bow on the average now in the 50's. And my melee weapons outdamages my bow extremely. I think the point is if you can earn that many AA for the AM skill then you should be rewarded with a seriously damaging archery ability....one point needs to be remembered fletching has not been implemented so arrows damage is limited some what.I just dont want someones panties getting in a bunch and in-turn causing our (rangers) archery skill to be nerfed where there is no reason to even use it at all. (now dont misunderstand me...I am sure Wiz will not let that happen, I just want to express my concerns for the class that I love to play)
Anyway just my opinion on the matter /shrug.
zodium
Dalayan Elder
Rangers should, indeed, do hefty damage with their bows.
They should not, however, vastly outdamage backstabbing rogues or ANY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME while maintaining decent tanking ability and spellcasting. They should lie somewhere between monks and rogues damage-wise, not doing twice the damage than either.
With a TOT-trial bow, the arrows from TOFS, AM3 and using Trueshot Disc, Wiz was able to pull off one-thousand damage per second. Are you telling me that's fair?
An archery nerf was in order, just not to the extent it was done.
They should not, however, vastly outdamage backstabbing rogues or ANY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME while maintaining decent tanking ability and spellcasting. They should lie somewhere between monks and rogues damage-wise, not doing twice the damage than either.
With a TOT-trial bow, the arrows from TOFS, AM3 and using Trueshot Disc, Wiz was able to pull off one-thousand damage per second. Are you telling me that's fair?
An archery nerf was in order, just not to the extent it was done.
Sorry, but Melwin I have to disagree with you ;(. I do believe we should be able to outdamage monks and other melee classes with our BOW.....maybe not vastly outdamage but outdamage. (except Rogues of course). That is the reason we are called rangers. Now I know I dont run this server and I am not asking you to make the class I play what I feel it should be...Just stating my feelings on the class for what its worth. /shrug
And I agree 1000dps is tad extreme but one thing to remember is with the trueshot disc does only last like 40sec ( I could be wrong...cant remember exact number but I am close) and the reuse time is something like a hour. So not like we are going to be doing that hefty damage every fight we are in and/or for the duration of the fight either, and when we are doing that hefty damage with our arrows we are not able to do much tanking and our spell casting nukes/dots are nothing to be amazed at. and usually once that disc is over we move to melee the mob anyways.
(I think most of the contraversy started over PVP play ...I could be wrong though and as you can see I am not a PVP fan.)
Overall, I must say I am not or can't complain at all, I love playing on the server and its fun to say the least
.
And I agree 1000dps is tad extreme but one thing to remember is with the trueshot disc does only last like 40sec ( I could be wrong...cant remember exact number but I am close) and the reuse time is something like a hour. So not like we are going to be doing that hefty damage every fight we are in and/or for the duration of the fight either, and when we are doing that hefty damage with our arrows we are not able to do much tanking and our spell casting nukes/dots are nothing to be amazed at. and usually once that disc is over we move to melee the mob anyways.
(I think most of the contraversy started over PVP play ...I could be wrong though and as you can see I am not a PVP fan.)
Overall, I must say I am not or can't complain at all, I love playing on the server and its fun to say the least
.
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
Xairo said:Sorry, but His Royal Highness Melwin I have to disagree with you ;(. I do believe we should be able to outdamage monks and other melee classes with our BOW.....maybe not vastly outdamage but outdamage. (except Rogues of course). That is the reason we are called rangers. Now I know I dont run this server and I am not asking you to make the class I play what I feel it should be...Just stating my feelings on the class for what its worth. /shrug
And I agree 1000dps is tad extreme but one thing to remember is with the trueshot disc does only last like 40sec ( I could be wrong...cant remember exact number but I am close) and the reuse time is something like a hour. So not like we are going to be doing that hefty damage every fight we are in and/or for the duration of the fight either, and when we are doing that hefty damage with our arrows we are not able to do much tanking and our spell casting nukes/dots are nothing to be amazed at. and usually once that disc is over we move to melee the mob anyways.
(I think most of the contraversy started over PVP play ...I could be wrong though and as you can see I am not a PVP fan.)
Overall, I must say I am not or can't complain at all, I love playing on the server and its fun to say the least
.
He said backstabbing rogues. Not monks.
And remember that 1000 dps with trueshot means 500 dps without.
Also, Enchanted Djinni Arrows only drop once each time (for the 3 times I've been there) on the seventh floor ToFS (you need a two+ group raid to get there). There's a huge difference between those eight damage arrows (50/60% increase from Hooked/Noramal arrows) arrows that are normally used by rangers. On top of that, they only drop 10 at a time.
Thus, a single ranger from the guild could only do a total of 1000 damage (max) per second with Trueshot every ten times, and that's after a ToFS raid (which are rare enough in themselves).
I know that it's still over-powered, but I don't want people going around thinking that rangers could do 1000dps every time they took out their bow.
I've never really been against an archery nerf, what I do object to is the fact that archery will only be worth using (assuming we want to keep dps in line with everyone else) if you have AM3 (which adds 100% damage to archery). In order to get that, you need to spend 6AA in normal, 12AAin Archtype and 9AA in Class. That makes a total of 27AA to make the bow a decently damaging weapon (This is excluding the 9AA that you'd need to purchase Endless Quiver (which in turn saves you from having to drag a load of arrows (that cost money) around or find a generous mage in the area)). The problem with this is that it's mainly level 60 players who start on AA, thus handicapping the lower-end players in an attempt to balance the higher-end.
Even still, I think a ranger's bow should outdamage his/her melee DPS. Otherwise, what's the point in having it other than to snare-kite (which is one of the reasons it's being nerfed in the first place). Kionn has only snare-kited one mob for exp successfully, and that's because he wasn't (but should have been) able to summon. The point is: I don't want to have to carry around three or four backpacks filled with arrows (which cost money), spend a rather large amount of AA on archery AND have a fairly decent bow JUST to do as much damage as my sword and mace. And I especially don't want to carry around three or four bags of arrows pre-51 just to do LESS damage than my weapons.
EDIT:
Still, that's with Trueshot and Djinni arrows. What was the DPS without Trueshot and normal Summoned: Arrow / Arrow?
What's the DPS going to be with normal arrows and the new styles?
Thus, a single ranger from the guild could only do a total of 1000 damage (max) per second with Trueshot every ten times, and that's after a ToFS raid (which are rare enough in themselves).
I know that it's still over-powered, but I don't want people going around thinking that rangers could do 1000dps every time they took out their bow.
I've never really been against an archery nerf, what I do object to is the fact that archery will only be worth using (assuming we want to keep dps in line with everyone else) if you have AM3 (which adds 100% damage to archery). In order to get that, you need to spend 6AA in normal, 12AAin Archtype and 9AA in Class. That makes a total of 27AA to make the bow a decently damaging weapon (This is excluding the 9AA that you'd need to purchase Endless Quiver (which in turn saves you from having to drag a load of arrows (that cost money) around or find a generous mage in the area)). The problem with this is that it's mainly level 60 players who start on AA, thus handicapping the lower-end players in an attempt to balance the higher-end.
Even still, I think a ranger's bow should outdamage his/her melee DPS. Otherwise, what's the point in having it other than to snare-kite (which is one of the reasons it's being nerfed in the first place). Kionn has only snare-kited one mob for exp successfully, and that's because he wasn't (but should have been) able to summon. The point is: I don't want to have to carry around three or four backpacks filled with arrows (which cost money), spend a rather large amount of AA on archery AND have a fairly decent bow JUST to do as much damage as my sword and mace. And I especially don't want to carry around three or four bags of arrows pre-51 just to do LESS damage than my weapons.
EDIT:
Still, that's with Trueshot and Djinni arrows. What was the DPS without Trueshot and normal Summoned: Arrow / Arrow?
What's the DPS going to be with normal arrows and the new styles?