What should be done for L65 Mage?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bridger

Dalayan Beginner
Aisling talking about mage:-

Personally if I restarted completely and was forced to choose between only those 2? I'd probably go with beastlord. Given more options than just those 2, I would never choose either.

Before answering this question I suggest you fomelo the top 5 Mage list.
It is apparent that NONE is actively played any more.

So my question is what needs to be done to make mage an attractive enough character for (a) people to want to play them and (b) for them to be wanted in groups and raids?
 
Last edited:
I don't think that mages are as bad as your post suggests. I don't know why the top 5 retired, but you are making an assumption. At least in Amicii, mages provide an important DPS role as well as providing a buff (DS+FR) and summoned items (mod rods). So, at least in my guild, a) people (Maktoum, Ibuki, Grawill) want to play them and b) they are wanted in groups and raids. In many fights, a mage has the top DPS of the raid.

I suppose that every class could be improved upon. But I think you have some faulty assumptions.

I do think that there is an issue keeping pets alive in the top end raiding. Part of the Ikisith expansion addresses this, but I have yet to be able to test it.


p.s. An interesting note. Azmat (Kirin Folken) stopped boxing the Paladin/Shaman and switched to his Paladin/Mage. And his Shaman, Nabal, is no slouch.
 
Last edited:
the problem is that none of the active devs ever played a mage if only there were a dev who had played a mage into the higher tiers mages would be a lot better
 
I'd certainly like to hear specifics myself. He's been bitching for years and I've yet to hear anything constructive myself, or see any numbers.
 
here are some numbers for you:
Code:
  .------.   .-````-.       _ _    ,---.      .`````-.   .-```````-.  
 /  .-.   \ /  _ _   \     ( ' )  /,--.|     /   ,-.  \ / ,```````. \ 
/  /   `--'|  ( ' )  |    (_{;}_)//_  ||    (___/  |   ||/ .-./ )  \| 
|  .----.  | (_{;}_) |     (_,_)/_( )_||          .'  / || \ '_ .')|| 
|   _ _  '.|  (_,_)  |     //  /(_ o _)|      _.-'_.-'  ||(_ (_) _)|| 
|  ( ' )   \\        |    //  / /(_,_)||_   _/_  .'     ||  / .  \ || 
| (_{;}_)  | `----`  | ,-'/  /  `-----' || ( ' )(__..--.||  `-'`"` || 
\  (_,_)  /  .--. /  /)  (   `-------|||-'(_{;}_)      |\'._______.'/ 
 `...__..'   )_____.' `---'          '-'   (_,_)-------' '._______.'
 
I don't think they're that bad. Most of the top 5 mages quit the game alltogether if I'm not mistaken. Even if they just drastically reduced their playtime, other classes/duos are more casual-player friendly.
I find my mage fun to play and when I was still logging in regularly, I'd play her any time I could get a group. It was just easier to get a good group if I played a tank and/or healer, though.
 
In many fights, a mage has the top DPS of the raid.

Do you have any actual parses to back this up? I've personally never seen a mage top the DPS list in parses on raids I've been in, and I don't really see how they could unless the mage had a significant gear/tome/charm advantage.
 
Personally, my mage has only come close to pure dps classes when dpsing two targets with rains. Wizards by far out dps, and put out more total damage on raids. Mages also bring utility though. Mages have long needed a re-vamp, as brought up in countless past threads, so I don't see why anything would change now.
 
Here's my uninformed take on mages at the top end/in the raid game:

They dont' get to really shine DPS-wise unless there's 2 targets, as has been mentioned, and most raids the goal is 1 at a time, resulting in there being better choices for the DPS spot on your raid to optimize the raid's DPS.

I've been told mage pets could really use some love, never really parsed/paid attention to one on a raid enough to say so myself.

Utility-wise the only thing you gain by having a mage in your raid is mod-rods and CotH. By the time you reach end-game your FT is capped, you have several clickies to regain mana, plus some class abilities that assist in regaining mana, making mod rods not all that necessary, even in a long fight. CotH is easily replaced by things like corpse-calls or running back to the zone/porting someone back up and having them run to the raid, since the zone is, 99% of the time, clear from entrance to raid.

The rest of mage utility is in their DS and summons, all of which can be done before the raid.

I can recall one specific instance where we actually paid attention to a relic mage pet's DPS on a raid fight, if I recall it was in the mid to high 500s, but we had given that mage pet two REDACTEDs that severely skewed that number, and it died either during the fight, or during the trash pulls shortly after.

What I personally tend to see with mages on raids is: constant waiting to re-summon their pet, gear it, buff it, make it useful, and even more swarm pets/monster summonings to get in the way/trap you behind mobs/mess up targetting with adds.

We've never really used a mage for long on raids in TU, I'd be interested to see if the new monster summon gives them a big leg-up like it did for beastlords, once it's functioning as is supposedly intended.


All that being said, I have no idea what would make mages more viable/make Aisling happy (lol). My initial reaction is to say give them an upgrade to their main pet (poor beastlords) and/or some more consumable summons maybe? Mod rods are great, I'd hate to step on cleric's murk-bead-toes, but maybe a summonable rune/resist buff clicky/atk buff clicky? (Even typing this it reeks of making mages an enchanter who makes clickies to cast chanter spells, yuck) I've said in another thread I'd really hate to see mages pack-muled with yet another summon, but short-duration/consumables would add a lot more to their in-raid utility.

It has been said that mages are still awesome leveling up, and do just fine in xp groups, fine line to walk there. Maybe the problem isn't mages, it's just the min-max crowd?

tl;dr: There are just always better choices for your raid DPS-wise from the min-max point of view, and most of a mage's in-raid utility just isn't good enough to worry about.
 
Last edited:
I partially agree with notpit. We have a couple very active mages in our guild. Ibuki/Maktoum are definitely our best 2. Ibuki has a lot more AAs and a little tome xp/Maktoum has Archaic. Neither of them out dps any of the wizards we bring on our raids or Cilulizi(monk) or Gedge(rogue). I would say that once I got an on tier bow the mages and I would do about the same dps, 250-400 depending on the fight etc.

The last fight we had both of them fighting that was fairly simple was Denos. Ibuki did 338dps, maktoum 264. Ibuki was not boxing(99% sure), Maktoum was boxing our Shaman/ Petulant, Maktoum's pet did 120 DPS, maktoum did about 51dps with pet summons. Breog who I think is Ibuki's pet did 134 dps. The only 2 toons who did more dps than the 2 mages all have max tomes and are T9. But Ghaellie our guilds best wizard (4tomes, Crit evoc1) still does more DPS than either.

That said I think they enjoy playing their classes and I find them to be quite useful on raids and they always do consistently high DPS.
 
Last edited:
Mod rods are great, I'd hate to step on cleric's murk-bead-toes, but maybe a summonable rune/resist buff clicky/atk buff clicky? (Even typing this it reeks of making mages an enchanter who makes clickies to cast chanter spells, yuck) I've said in another thread I'd really hate to see mages pack-muled with yet another summon, but short-duration/consumables would add a lot more to their in-raid utility.

There is a melee type mod rod clicky from Gruplok Quests.
 
Well therein lies part of the problem.

At high end everyone has clickies for food water invis lev EB and now it seems modrod. This just serves to make a mage reduntant.

Mages role is ti provide DS and dots at the start of the raid then log off and let the "proper" DPS get on with it.
 
Still haven't seen any numbers that prove that.

Do you want me to send you nilaat's log file so you can look through the parses? The only fight that was a straight up spank and tank on there is Denos tho.

Altho you could probably combine all the mobs that spawn during the Anos fight too, that might be fairly accurate.
 
I'm fine with logs being posted here so others can critique it.

We're fine with making changes these days, just look at the recent SK developments. Just need a direction.
 
I mean their DPS is pretty high up there for a T7 mage (400-600ish). Its just not as high as a wizards. Does their added utility of summoning mod rods throughout the raid, which is the only thing they can't do as a buff bot, benefit the raid more than that loss of DPS vs a wizard

I mean for fights like Anos, you could do something neat with a mage when he does REDACTED but I'm not sure there are a lot of other fights like that.
 
I'm fine with logs being posted here so others can critique it.

We're fine with making changes these days, just look at the recent SK developments. Just need a direction.

Provided sintasia shows up tomorrow, I'll parse our entire raid and post them or pm you them based on what we do.
 
Assuming such information is forthcoming where would we think it reasonable for Mage DPS to be in relation to say Wizard/Rogue/Monk?
 
For me, the best DPS numbers come from stacking Archaic and Relic rains on 2 mobs and nuking the primary target. This really only works when we have 2 tanks and they are considerate enough to group the mobs close together (doesn't come up very often). More often I am stacking rains and nuking on a single mob if it is far enough away from the mezzed mobs. Otherwise I just chain cast Nukes and record my meesly DSP.
Monster summons are ate up by AOE's too fast to be effective.
AA swarm pets are OK for final 10% of Boss fights if it doesnt AOE.
Relic pet livelyhood is based on healer prowess (not mage heals) and are a PITA to rebuff after deaths.
Ideas:
A higher level DOT. 1 Fire and 1 Ice based DOT would be the ticket.
A powerful pet HOT.
Letting Monster summons benefit from group heals and group HOTs. (save the rat!)

Just a couple of quick thoughts - and yes, I know they should be feared and rejected.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom