What class/race combos should have existed all along?

Grinkles

Grinkles

Developer
Staff member
What disallowed class/race combo(s) do you think should have been enabled from the start? Personally, I like the direction that EQ2 took by allowing any and all class/race combos so that a player wouldn't have to give up playing his favorite class just to be able to pick his favorite race or vice versa. I always thought if a player loved Ogres so much despite their lack of brainpower, yet that player still went ahead to become a rare Ogre Wizard or whatever, more power to them -- it gave their character, well, character! The restricted system SoD uses does have its benefits, though, such as predictability and allowing those privileged few with enough fame to "buy" their way into any class/race combo they always dreamed of; this makes those characters stand out all the more, making you wonder how they won the race change in the first place!

Anyway, if you could go through SoD and enable any class/race combinations to your liking, what would they be and why? Would you, in theory, be against a Shards of Dalaya where all class/race combinations were permitted?

Here's my list:

Bard
  • Halfling: This seems like a no-brainer, given how social this race is. I also have wondered whether there were early plans to enable BRD for this race simply because there exists one "casting" animation for songs for all small races (which share the same animation set). Between Dwarf, Gnome, and Halfling, this race certainly seems the most likely contender for the class.
Beastlord
  • Froglok: This race is itself designed after an animal, and the other two animal-derived races (IKS and VAH) both got to be BSTs. Lots of swamp-themed pets could be thought up for this class, perhaps with the Froglok tadpole being the most obvious choice. Other options might include the mosquito or the snake. Finally, FRG is actually the only race with access to SHM yet no access to BST!
Cleric
  • Half Elf: This is the one and only races that allows PAL yet does not also allow CLR, which makes little sense to me. What might the rationale behind this have been in this first place? I don't think it's a holdover from AD&D or anything....
Druid
  • I wouldn't change anything for this class. A case might be made for Barbarians, but SHM fills that role well enough in my book.
Enchanter
  • Froglok: This race already has a robe graphic and can already choose WIZ, so why should Enchanter be beyond their capabilities?
  • Iksar: The Iksar have proven their cunning and propensity toward manipulating others, so ENC seems like a natural fit. They also look great in robes, yet NECs are the only robe caster class to enjoy that benefit (and they spend most of their career in dorky Undead forms anyway!).
Magician
  • Froglok: Same reason as above.
Monk
  • Vah (Shir): Maybe this is a result of a bug that for some reason usually makes me see Vah as wearing no armor whatsoever, but this race seems like it would be well-suited to the MNK class. As BSTs, they frequently use H2H weapons anyway, and given their comparable size to the Iksar and also the presence of a tail, the connection wouldn't be that much of a stretch. It'd also be nice to see a little variety among this class, given that all the Monks you ever come across are limited to one of two races!
Necromancer
  • Froglok: Same reason as given for Enchanter and Magician. Incidentally, FRG NECs were allowed on Live after a certain point; I'm curious how this will be handled with the new client....
Paladin
  • I wouldn't change anything for this class, though I could picture a decent case being made for the do-gooder Wood Elves; they look great in platemail yet so few of their classes get plate pieces!
Ranger
  • I wouldn't change anything for this class. As with Druids above, I could see a case being made for Barbarians (especially since tracking food in the desolate north must be pretty important around Halas!), but I'm not sure it would fit all that well with the lore.
Rogue
  • Iksar: This race is sneaky and shady by nature. Simply look at their slinky movement animations while ducked -- that just screams ROG! And was there ever an Iksar in the lore who wasn't adept at backstabbing (metaphorically speaking)?
Shadowknight
  • Froglok: I don't mean for this race to be getting all the attention, but given that FRGs were eventually allowed to be NECs on Live, the extension of SHD doesn't seem very far-fetched. The race was given CLR / WAR and therefore PAL from the start, so if they ended up with NEC / WAR later on, why wasn't SHD enabled?!
Shaman
  • I wouldn't change anything for this class, though I do rather wonder what spurred the Live devs to grant FRGs access to both CLR and SHM rather than one or the other; they're the only race with access to both!
Warrior
  • I wouldn't change anything for this class. The fact that ERU and HIE (High Elf) are the only two disallowed races gives them something of a unique trademark. Plus, they're among the wimpiest and most cerebral of races, so the rough-and-tumble ways of the WAR seem unsuited to them.
Wizard
  • I wouldn't change anything for this class. However, poor, hopeless Thog in Southern Newport makes me wish we could see one or two OGR WIZ toons running around Dalaya! ;)

Lastly, a couple fun facts regarding class/race combos!
  1. Originally, Gnomes were incapable of being knights (PAL / SHD); this change didn't come until a year or two into Live's development!
  2. Similarly, Halflings were incapable of being PALs and RNGs until the same patch when Gnomes were knight-enabled!
  3. As mentioned above, Frogloks were enabled for NEC and ROG several expansions after the race's initial introduction in the Legacy of Ykesha "extension" pack (a.k.a. mini-expansion pack); I'm not sure if there were lore-related reasons for this, such as the race "falling" from their highpoint in Grobb and being displaced to Rathe Mountains....
  4. The much-maligned Berserker (BER) class was enabled only for the following four races on Live:
    • Barbarian
    • Dwarf
    • Ogre
    • Troll
  5. The Drakkin race, which came later in Live's development, was enabled for all but the following classes:
    • Beastlord
    • Berserker
    • Shaman
 
Interesting, I agree with most of your class additions. They feel right.
The biggest change I envision would be to remove gnomes/halflings from being any of the tank classes. Just seems weird having these itty bitty races being tanky, tough classes. Dwarves I'll allow even though they are short because they seem to possess a certain toughness that could fill this role.
 
Every class/race should be open to personalization. It sucks trying to play a game where you hate the look of your character. Especially when you spend hundreds of days of real time staring at the same fugly avatar. I don't think it would kill the lore of the world just to let the player decide. You can spend (precious) buff slots anyway to get literally any desired look with an enchanter's buffs. Fame rewards could be cooler things like permanent titles or Events ran by the fame earner with staff help.
 
Pecannius said:
Interesting, I agree with most of your class additions. They feel right.
The biggest change I envision would be to remove gnomes/halflings from being any of the tank classes. Just seems weird having these itty bitty races being tanky, tough classes. Dwarves I'll allow even though they are short because they seem to possess a certain toughness that could fill this role.
Click to expand...
Interesting choice. I always did think it was a bit weird for Gnomes and Halflings to be able to choose tanks, but I'm so used to the option and love the thought of the tiniest character being the only one able to stand toe-to-toe with a gigantic raid boss. :p

fxattack said:
Every class/race should be open to personalization. It sucks trying to play a game where you hate the look of your character. Especially when you spend hundreds of days of real time staring at the same fugly avatar. I don't think it would kill the lore of the world just to let the player decide. You can spend (precious) buff slots anyway to get literally any desired look with an enchanter's buffs. Fame rewards could be cooler things like permanent titles or Events ran by the fame earner with staff help.
Click to expand...
I wonder what SoD would've been like if all combinations had been enabled. One problem could be that robe casters would look silly in most armor given that the races not enabled for those classes were never given robe graphics. This could potentially be remedied with a little creativity and some way of cracking .wld files, but even so it'd just be plain fun to see something like a Troll Magician running around in an exp group. Plus, it'd open all sorts of unusual new considerations for racial bonuses.

If, in some magical bizarro SoD, class/race limitations were entirely removed retroactively, perhaps those who had paid big fame for a race change way back when could retain their new race and simply be refunded their fame. It'd sure take the novelty out of characters like Quila being the only GNM DRU on the server, for example, but there will still always be those combinations that people would naturally shy away from (such as Ogre Cleric or whatever).

Fun to think about, even if it isn't realistic. :)
 
Breigon said:
Grinkles. Gnome Monk. What else needs be said? :p Just maybe, one day that robe from PoFire will BE MINE!
Click to expand...
Did someone say Gnome Monk?!

GnomeGunShow_zpsa9371c7b.jpg
 
I like to give my mage Iksar illusion, just because I have always wanted to play one. On Live the lore stated they were heretics and forbidden. ( I guess it wasn't allowed by Cazic-Thule /shrug)

Besides, the classic Iksar models ROCK the robes!
 
fxattack said:
It sucks trying to play a game where you hate the look of your character. Especially when you spend hundreds of days of real time staring at the same fugly avatar.
Click to expand...
What sucks even more is staring at a fire or were frog illusion permanently.
 
Daffie said:
Technically, in SoD, with enough fame, you can be any class/race combo...
Click to expand...
True, but that's an awfully big "technically," Daffie! :p

DreadBlade99 said:
I like to give my mage Iksar illusion, just because I have always wanted to play one. On Live the lore stated they were heretics and forbidden. ( I guess it wasn't allowed by Cazic-Thule /shrug)

Besides, the classic Iksar models ROCK the robes!
Click to expand...
You just reminded me how awful Luclin Iksars look in robes! o_O /shiver
 
Ulandx said:
What sucks even more is staring at a fire or were frog illusion permanently.
Click to expand...
Get an armor or gender illusion clicky, like Dagger of Protective Illusions, click your ToLL/Melwin Idol/Whatyou got, click this, click off the illusion buff from this - welcome back to the appearance of your original racial model while still benefitting from your clicky illusion buff*.

*Does not work with worn illusions, and ENCs with SB/AoD have a habit on screwing you here as well.
 
Nwaij said:
Get an armor or gender illusion clicky, like Dagger of Protective Illusions, click your ToLL/Melwin Idol/Whatyou got, click this, click off the illusion buff from this - welcome back to the appearance of your original racial model while still benefitting from your clicky illusion buff*.

*Does not work with worn illusions, and ENCs with SB/AoD have a habit on screwing you here as well.
Click to expand...
Tyvm,didnt know that.
 
fxattack said:
Every class/race should be open to personalization. It sucks trying to play a game where you hate the look of your character. Especially when you spend hundreds of days of real time staring at the same fugly avatar. I don't think it would kill the lore of the world just to let the player decide. You can spend (precious) buff slots anyway to get literally any desired look with an enchanter's buffs. Fame rewards could be cooler things like permanent titles or Events ran by the fame earner with staff help.
Click to expand...

I would embrace this type of system if the races were more distinctive, otherwise you get tons of gnome warriors, ogre wizards, and high elf necromancers just for the sake of people being ironic lolz roflmao look-at-me. If Thog really wants to be a wizard that is his choice, but it is going to be one hell of a tall hill to climb since more distincitive/"realistic" races means he is awfully damn stupid. Halfling warrior? Ok, but you'll still lose a direct melee battle against your average barbarian way more often than not. Want to be a Wood Elf Druid? Well good for you since the wood elves are totally friendly with druid, have abilities conducive to druid skills, and have a natural inclination for trees and such.
 
With the way racial bonuses work in this game, you'd be sacrificing those cool boosts to pick unique/weird combinations like Ogre Wizard, who won't be needing to make their stamina last longer. I don't even remember what most of the other races do. It could open up more diversification of the race population, though. For example, every good monk is an Iksar that looks exactly the same. Iksar is a terrific looking race and the only good option for monks, I suppose. I'm picturing all the monks I've played with and I couldn't tell them apart at all, which seems a little boring to me.
 
fxattack said:
With the way racial bonuses work in this game, you'd be sacrificing those cool boosts to pick unique/weird combinations like Ogre Wizard, who won't be needing to make their stamina last longer. I don't even remember what most of the other races do. It could open up more diversification of the race population, though. For example, every good monk is an Iksar that looks exactly the same. Iksar is a terrific looking race and the only good option for monks, I suppose. I'm picturing all the monks I've played with and I couldn't tell them apart at all, which seems a little boring to me.
Click to expand...
Ogre stamina is one of the more exciting/noteworthy racials on sod and even that falls several kilometers short of distinctive races. I'm talking base stats and itemization to where a gnome with planar gear might be as strong as a slightly above average ogre. Dark Elf Paladins who are constantly losing their divine powers because their inner evil keeps screwing up their faction. Etc... Crazy combos are fine and dandy if you make people work for them, otherwise race is just skins over the same ol' whatever and it all blands the senses straight to who-gives-a-shit station.

Great OP Grinkles. Half Elves should get to be anything humans can do, they might be half Dark Elf for all we know so Necromancer, SK, Wizard, etc... should be on the table.
 
back in the day i thought a Barbarian Paladin would be a cool thing (imagined a overly large holy knight and why not? a orphaned barbairan coudla easily been picked up by a overly goodie cleric/pally and trained him in their ways).
 
I was always held back by trolls not being able to be more classes. Then again, trolls don't fit very well with the story of most of the classes.
 
there are many, many non-traditional races of classes. back in the day, it was viable to obtain enough fame, and there were often events where you could win a race change. however, to my knowledge, almost everyone picked dark elf, iksar, or gnome :p even i have a dark elf shaman from an event back in ~08

i think a good solution would be to bring back more ways to gain fame and more events that award race changes & titles. for instance, it was hinted that the first person to get a new upper thaz key would get a title. I was that person, and it just... never happened. I would really love to see a vibrant relationship between GMs and players again, but I know that's easier said than done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom