Weapon Proc Rate Changes
- Thread starter Dinadass
- Start date
AngryCow
Dalayan Elder
Monks start equipping your weps and fomeloing yourselves (It's an ok thing thing to do, everyone goes through a stage in life where they begin to get urges to fomelo themselves, it's perfectly natural). If you find something new use the fomelo2wiki and update the wiki on it! just copy everything under the " <!--End Infobox - Below are stats-->" from the tool and paste it over the same data in the wiki page, any changes to stats like STR/DEX and proc rates will then get updated and the infobox (ie what mob drops the item and such) which likely didn't change, will remain the same.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
Agni did not really need nerfed. The damage was based and relied on procs of the weapon that is fairly slow and a bad ratio for a 2h. I believe the design of the weapon was based on a higher proc rate thus more spell damage. I think it was also made fire damage because there are a lot of places that fire damage is pretty much useless.
Why was this even needed has anyone parsed the difference between this weapon and say focus or another weapon of a similair tier. The previous big draw to the weapon would have been nice pre ripost changes.
Was jyre proc rate looked at in ammo to make a viable use to use with 2 1 handed sword a warrior an sword and shield for a knight. The buff is really nice sometimes but it's not always useable and -20% spec diety adjust is a pretty stiff price to pay.
Why was this even needed has anyone parsed the difference between this weapon and say focus or another weapon of a similair tier. The previous big draw to the weapon would have been nice pre ripost changes.
Was jyre proc rate looked at in ammo to make a viable use to use with 2 1 handed sword a warrior an sword and shield for a knight. The buff is really nice sometimes but it's not always useable and -20% spec diety adjust is a pretty stiff price to pay.
When I was on-tier with agni I parsed it against the other shitty weapons you can get around there and didn't find it to be better. I think it was actually worse by a good margin because other 2handers around that tier have much better melee dps.
Agni may be getting retuned to do something cool? Or not who knows.
Agni may be getting retuned to do something cool? Or not who knows.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
I don't have any parses to share because Effort; but I was doing considerably more dps using Agni in primary than Jyre.. despite the terrible ratio.. #thatproc
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
Agni did entirely Too Much Damage for its tier. The problem with Jyre is something different entirely and should probably have its own thread; although no one that has one is qualified to talk about it.. #it'sawholething
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
The thing that is nice about Agni and Agni dps is that it scales with tier. Get fire focus bam more dps. Get fore tomes bam more dps. Get higher crit rates from books and charm bam more dps.
Thus at the tier when you obtain the weapon it isn't great because you don't have much crit rates and probably limited to no fire focus. The difference lies between this weapon and others is that the dps is directly correlated through a prox and not the melee dps. So as your toon gets better the sword gets better. The reason it is so noticeable is because of a high damage proc.
Thus at the tier when you obtain the weapon it isn't great because you don't have much crit rates and probably limited to no fire focus. The difference lies between this weapon and others is that the dps is directly correlated through a prox and not the melee dps. So as your toon gets better the sword gets better. The reason it is so noticeable is because of a high damage proc.
Kedrin
Dalayan Pious Diety
This is clearly a developer oversight, however in the way you cite. The game favors spell damage MUCH more than "white" melee damage. Basically Shimone pointed it out in a rudimentary way. Melee scales linear with a small scalier, where as magic damage is nonlinear. Math omg.
Fuwok is not incorrect in his statement. Agni drops from a T7 mob in PoFire. Around that time a warrior is likely to wear a Juggernaut for their charm (0% spell crit) unless they are pro and use an open Type 5 aug for a Globe of Searfire for 3% spell crit. They also most likely have 0% fire focus. Not truly receiving one until Diadem of Tarhyl's Anointed from ToT at T9, unless they use Virtue (T8) for some reason.
At Tier 13 a warrior has his Supreme 8% spell crit, can have 8% more spell crit tome Tomes, can have 8% more fire damage from Tome of Flame Mastery, can have 7% more fire damage from Fiery Chaos.
All this time the only things that are helping their white damage (melee) is a laughable amount of strength that developers are still reluctant to tell players how much it actually helps or what it does. and a possible 4% more crit from tomes.
How is it acceptable that there is ONE tome that helps white damage in the game?
Tomes that help Spell damage and or procs?
1 - Manual of Triggered Casting
2 - Tome of Critical Evocation
3 - Tome of the Mind
4 - Tome of Frost Mastery / Tome of Flame Mastery / Tome of Magic Mastery / Tome of Infection Mastery / Tome of Lifetap Mastery
NOTE: All Lifetaps spells in the game are also Magic so they "double dip"
Hmmmm, I really wonder why the HMAL Lance, Lance of Vigilance, is powerful at high end game?!?! It's and Agni with a better ratio and also has a proc that double dips on tomes.
People wonder why melee are low on the DPS charts, its simply because white damage is laughable once you get to the higher end.
Every "good" weapon in the game is only good because of it's proc. Weapons mean nothing without a proc.
It's funny that Experimental Staff of Skycalling hasn't been nerfed yet. Let me guess: I'm sure it was the person who made the weapons fault? They didn't foresee a Tier 3 weapon out parsing a T11 (Nail of Festering Decay) weapon. How could this be?!?! A 0.368 ratio weapon doing more damage than a 1 ratio weapon?!?! You need only look at the proc.
The problem is not the weapons people, it's the math.
1- 150 worn atk cap being stagnate
2- 10% worn melee crit being stagnate
3 - Only having one melee tome in the game (4% more melee crit)
4 - STR and Dex having such little progression that it isn't even parsable.
5 - Tome of Enhanced <Insert Stat Here> being in the game just to take the place of good tomes that increase MAGIC damage that 100% of the DPS classes want to get just because they are the only things that actually increase DPS in the game.
6 - Bane Damage even being in the game (This is a whole different topic and even longer rant that I don't wish to get into at the moment for your sake)
These are the problems people, not the weapons. Stop nerfing items to mask true problems with the game.
Sorry for my long rant. I hope no one ends up reading this. More so I hope no Dev takes this personal that is not, and never will be my intent.
Vitali
Dalayan Master
RIP Experimental Staff of Skycalling
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
Yeah I was 100% sure that the Staff was one of the nerfs when I read the patch notes, then I fomeloed and saw it was unchanged and my head started hurting.
Kedrin's post is A+ and there are a lot of easy ways to fix white damage but I don't think people are actually interested in doing so for whatever reason.
Kedrin's post is A+ and there are a lot of easy ways to fix white damage but I don't think people are actually interested in doing so for whatever reason.
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Kedrin wrote the longer and more thought out version of what I wanted to - items that become OP for some reason later aren't unbalanced, its what happened later that is unbalanced.
I'm not losing any sleep over it, but it is strange that mêlées are looking for the next big thing when it comes to procs, when they probably could just hit harder physically and have the procs stay the window dressing that they were intended to be.
edit: façade épée jalapeño
I'm not losing any sleep over it, but it is strange that mêlées are looking for the next big thing when it comes to procs, when they probably could just hit harder physically and have the procs stay the window dressing that they were intended to be.
edit: façade épée jalapeño
sabuti
Dalayan Elder
it is silly. even with an item like Entropy's Spine, with a 2.375 ratio isn't even that much better than horok dawnfist cause it doesn't proc as much. all about that proc damage
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
If only there were some experiment with changing STR/DEX scaling going on right now that could, with tinkering, be made meaningful and applied to all melee damage.
I wonder how catastrophic raising the atk and crit cap would be. I am thinking Nicholas Cage would end up having to run from an earthquake. People might even have to make item decisions again.
I wonder how catastrophic raising the atk and crit cap would be. I am thinking Nicholas Cage would end up having to run from an earthquake. People might even have to make item decisions again.
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
The problem there, as with bane and str/dex, is that most items at the high end stopped having crit and raw ATK on them since everyone caps those stats at like t8. It would be a good change if at the same time the item progression for those stats was completed but we were told the Bane changes were going to happen like that and they never did, so I'm not very optimistic towards doing that yet again.