sabuti
Dalayan Elder
no ty
We All Love Monks, Here
- Thread starter Slaariel
- Start date
It's not ideal but to push for major system deviation is unlikely at this point one would think.
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
Who barely uses stances. I had forgotten that Slaar started this thread with the idea of Wuxia heros (now edited out?) while at the same time almost completely eliminating stances from the class. Wuxia without stances, hilarious. I can only imagine how puzzling and stupid it will look to someone new to the server to see how all melees have more stances than the martial arts class.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
You only say that because T12-13 items are strangely low in stats, and powers that be seem to want them to remain that way.
Power scaling with stats is a cool thing, and allows meeles to actually continue scaling into late game instead of being reliant on clickies/new weapons.
The only problem with the system is that some people seem to think that the hardest to obtain items should not have the best stats, and thus monks would be left with lower tier gear being best in slot.
sabuti
Dalayan Elder
it also nerfs like every other class that uses str and dex. i don't know why they can't just fix each pair of monk gloves up throughout the tiers ending at the matron's grasp being the best
Daffie
Dalayan Pious Diety
There was a ton of talk about this same thing. I think the response is that there should not be a must have item for each tier that is 1 single pair of gloves.
While from a lore standpoint it would make sense to use Str/Dex, from an implementation perspective it doesn't because of how things are currently set up. It would have made much more sense to use HP as the baseline for damage because that stat is fully visible (unlike Str/dex), the numbers really do get higher through the tiers, there are no item modifications required, and there are no new required buffs at the high end (shm stats).
sabuti
Dalayan Elder
Daffie
Dalayan Pious Diety
I was just restating what was posted either earlier in this thread, or in the other thread. The HP thing was my idea, if we require a 'stat' to scale from.
I personally don't see any issue with scaling off gloves and the implementation is super easy. Maybe you update 5-10 items and add another 10 items across the tiers. Then call it a day.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Again, its only a problem because somehow in these changes it was deemed necessary to lower the overall stats of t12-13 stuff, which were already overall lower than the t10-11 stuff.
Its truly puzzling how someone would rationalize this as being a reasonable and beneficial direction for the game.
I'm really not trying to troll, I just cant understand why gear steadily progresses in stats through the tiers, but suddenly at t12-13 it stagnates/goes backwards.
I know Devs think there has been too much mudflation, and that high tier players are too powerful, but its not a problem in the items. Its a problem in there simply being more tiers of content. As content gets harder, items have to get better to some degree, and players have to get stronger to be able to progress into those new tiers. The fact is T12-13+ got made and players beat the content, and thus got stronger. Making the gear from that content worse is just an absurd/nonsensical way to deal with mudflation.
Besides, we all know the real problem was tomes, but that cat is out of the bag, and I don't think anyone is going to put it back.
Ludovician
Dalayan Elder
Bro
You don't want tier 6 xp zones to be trivial to tier 13 players that ruins the game for everyone even people who dont play yet haven't you been listening
I have one question for this Mnk thread. Why is the Pure-Melee treated like he should be the worst at everything. Every class, except the rogue, has great utility. The Mnk has FD and Mend. He now provides Auxing for utility except we can't DPS in front worth a dime.
I can't understand why the Mnk is told it can't have anything. For the first 5 years of this server we had one thing. If u were below a certain weight you were given a dodge bonus. Then that was taken away and we were given the combo system. A okay trade off, except we were kinda denied our one thing we all loved. Our position off a good Melee off-tank. You can't deny that is what people loved. You didn't play a mnk for any other reason for the first 5+ years of the game. We were the WORST DPS I have ever seen. I remember being T10 and my DPS was still pathetic. Why are we worried about DPS so much, when the role of the Mnk has been the great DPS off-tank?
Oh one last thing, Anyone else feel Dragon-Punch is a sad effect? knock-back and root. Most mobs summon. I kind a feel a dodge bonus or rune is more worthwhile. Am I missing something there?
I can't understand why the Mnk is told it can't have anything. For the first 5 years of this server we had one thing. If u were below a certain weight you were given a dodge bonus. Then that was taken away and we were given the combo system. A okay trade off, except we were kinda denied our one thing we all loved. Our position off a good Melee off-tank. You can't deny that is what people loved. You didn't play a mnk for any other reason for the first 5+ years of the game. We were the WORST DPS I have ever seen. I remember being T10 and my DPS was still pathetic. Why are we worried about DPS so much, when the role of the Mnk has been the great DPS off-tank?
Oh one last thing, Anyone else feel Dragon-Punch is a sad effect? knock-back and root. Most mobs summon. I kind a feel a dodge bonus or rune is more worthwhile. Am I missing something there?
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Thats a decent point. Monks used to be almost legit tanks. Like a SK/Pal was 90% of a warrior, and a monk was 70-80%, he was close enough that he could legitimately be used to off tank raid trash or even the boss for limited time / if actual tanks died.
The monk never did great dps, but he was the puller and offtank.
The combo system took away monks ability to actually tank stuff, and *maybe* gave them a small dps boost, but they were still worse dps than any "real" dps class.
Right now monks just arent good at anything, except pulling.
I think the utility though aux idea is good, but it only really works if monks can still dps while they aux. All the other dps classes add utility functions to the raid, while doing good dps.
The monk never did great dps, but he was the puller and offtank.
The combo system took away monks ability to actually tank stuff, and *maybe* gave them a small dps boost, but they were still worse dps than any "real" dps class.
Right now monks just arent good at anything, except pulling.
I think the utility though aux idea is good, but it only really works if monks can still dps while they aux. All the other dps classes add utility functions to the raid, while doing good dps.
I actually dis-agree with this. A rogue's Primary role is damage. A rogue is a Pure melee, and because of this he excels beyond all other DPS except the Wizard who is a PURE Caster that focuses completely on Damage. A Warrior is a Pure Melee and excels beyond all tanks. A mnk is also a pure-melee, but he can't excel at DPS, that is the rogues job, and he can't excel as a tank cause that is the warriors job. With that in mind his identity shifts away from Tank and DPS. Which leaves us with Support. How does a pure-melee support? Well, he supports tanks by helping them defend the healers/DPS. He supports the healers by making the tank take less dmg. That places the Mnk is a interesting light. He must be tankier than the other DPS, and he provides bonuses to the tanks while auxing. The Mnk is a King of support though, and to do this he must assist ALL three types of characters. Tanks, healers, and DPS. How does he support DPS? Well, he makes them do more dmg while dishing some out himself.
To summarize, Support is the Mnks Primary Role. Damage is the Rogue and Tank is the Warrior. therefore Mnk defaults to support. Otherwise he mirrors the other too much. To do this job, he needs to be tankier than all the other classes except real tanks, he needs to support the tanks by making them take less dmg, and he needs to help the DPS. In my honest opinion, his DPS should be more than tanks to help do this, but also provide something to the rest of the raid to help DPS. I am not sure what though. Build this support role appropriately and the Mnk doesn't need to be a rogue to be wanted in 6man/EXP/Raids.
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Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
there is a support melee DPS class and it is called a bard
cornelweezy
Dalayan Elder
first thing that came to my mind too but he does have a point: monks (and BSTs in the ancillary sense) are in a weird place because of role
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
I don't see anything wrong with monks being a meele dps class.
Rogue is the pure meele dps class, and thus will do more dps than a monk (and almost anyone else).
A monk can still do *good* dps though, they just need a small support function as well, to justify their not-rogue-tier dps.
The aux bonus thing is a really cool idea I think, but they just shouldn't sacrifice their dps to do that. Every other dps class provides support/benefits without sacrificing their dps. Wizards can evac, mages have rods, bards have songs, necros have fd/rez/mez, rogues have escape, BST have cool buffs. The only way you bring a class *just* for support is if they are amazing support ala enchanter, which ironically, can do the best dps in the game.
Rogue is the pure meele dps class, and thus will do more dps than a monk (and almost anyone else).
A monk can still do *good* dps though, they just need a small support function as well, to justify their not-rogue-tier dps.
The aux bonus thing is a really cool idea I think, but they just shouldn't sacrifice their dps to do that. Every other dps class provides support/benefits without sacrificing their dps. Wizards can evac, mages have rods, bards have songs, necros have fd/rez/mez, rogues have escape, BST have cool buffs. The only way you bring a class *just* for support is if they are amazing support ala enchanter, which ironically, can do the best dps in the game.
I agree completely with this Silo, I even called for our DPS stance to change to that. Slaar believes for some reason (and wont elaborate as far as I can tell) that this will make Mnks too powerful. I personally can't see how. I wish we could just stay where we are and DPS in the front, but since Slaar won't have that maybe this support idea would work. Especially if you just gave Mnks decent DPS and a way to increase DPS. Personally though, I prefer to DPS from the front, its a more ideal mnk to me as DPS and providing aux is alrdy common practice with most mnks.
Bards are not Pure melee...they have songs which is a form of spells. Pure melee constitute no mana bar, and no spells.