I must be missing something. All im suggesting is a %age chance to ignore the enemies Block and Dodge. That has nothing to do with Mnks takin less dmg. All i suggested was doing less DPS than rangers/Rogues but doing it in the front. If that is OP ill just give up the idea.
We All Love Monks, Here
- Thread starter Slaariel
- Start date
If monks were doing 1000 DPS from the front and able to stand there without just getting wrecked by riposte and other special attacks then I would be ok with doing so much LESS dps than a rogue or ranger. That would be a somewhat acceptable role. I think that the numbers as stated though are terrible and it worries me that you are ok with them.
T13 melee raid dps really should look like:
rogue 1500 from behind,
ranger 1300 from range,
monk 1100 from the front or back.
I feel like this really gives everyone a place in a raid and I think this is the balance you need to shoot for.
Monks should be Tankier than rangers, rangers are ranged, rangers get to avoid a tremendous amount of incoming dps and do more dps. Monks should be tankier than rogues, rogues do a shit ton more dmg.
T13 melee raid dps really should look like:
rogue 1500 from behind,
ranger 1300 from range,
monk 1100 from the front or back.
I feel like this really gives everyone a place in a raid and I think this is the balance you need to shoot for.
Monks should be Tankier than rangers, rangers are ranged, rangers get to avoid a tremendous amount of incoming dps and do more dps. Monks should be tankier than rogues, rogues do a shit ton more dmg.
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Nebi
Dalayan Pious Diety
this is going ot make monks yet again the preferred class for exp and 6menz tanking
yes this.
What burt is saying is my view, except I understnad if im in my DPS stance I will take dmg. If im in S3 I wont, but i wont do as much DPS. All I have suggested is Taking out S2 and putting in a stance that can allow a mnk to do S2 DPS in the front. I am not suggesting a whole new stance that allows DPS and Tankage. Frontal DPS is not some OP thing as far as I know...and if Ripo is unaffected by this chance to ignore then the Mnk will STILL be taking the dmg that he takes in S2. That is why im not understanding why u are saying what u are Slaar. currently u siad a mnk does 800 DPS. If he ignored block/dodge and still took Ripo, the dmg he is taking is the same as before! Auxing and dodging/blocking is worthless bonuses if u are behind!
If a DPS enhancement is thrown in AGAIN a Mnk should NOT do more than 1k at the tier u are talking. Mnks are Tanky DPS. They don't dish out tons of DPS they stay alive longer and dish it out.
If a DPS enhancement is thrown in AGAIN a Mnk should NOT do more than 1k at the tier u are talking. Mnks are Tanky DPS. They don't dish out tons of DPS they stay alive longer and dish it out.
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Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
pretty much this.
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
No it really won't, actually. Unless you mean for stuff that you vastly outgear. I don't tank Emberflow as well as a t10 tank does, and that was with s15 and lifetap combo. Monks are worse tanks now than with combos, they're just better at auxing.
everyone is forgetting one thing in all this. if a T13 Mnk is putting out 1k DPS....What does that matter to 6man when a T13 Rogue is putting out 1400 no Vah back and Tanks like Jraul Take 3 DBs and still live. or Rangers that toss out 1200 DPS and Tank as good if not better than a mnk. WHAT seems so desirable about the mnk in that sense?
Why? Would you not have a real tank to tank or a real melee for dps? Why is it not ok that a monk can fill in either spot in a pinch without being better at either? Isn't this the idea behind pretty much every class that isn't a cleric/rogue/warrior????
I am pretty sure that any group that looks like cleric/rogue/wizard/shamen/bard is going to prefer a plate tank for any content that isn't trivial anyway.
likewise for a warrior/cleric/enchanter/wizard/ranger group they are going to prffer a rogue to a monk.
If you don't have a tank and you are desperate maybe you bring a monk, and if you don't have a dps and you are desperate maybe you bring a monk. What is the issue with that?
But to answer Slaariels question, about when defensive stuff comes into play, I think the answer is: monks defensive stuff was probably fine before and shouldn't have really changed at all to begin with. I don't know any monks that were asking to tank better, I think they were just asking for the growing gap between monk and other class dps to be looked at, monks should not be half of rogues, or half of rangers or less than bards, This is really the only issue. That is really the only complaint, I think you have had a lot of creative solutions to address this but the only thing you really needed to do was look at monk weapon itemization ratio scaling at tier 9+ and be done with it.
The class was broken because white auto-attack dmg doesn't scale well in the later teirs and because flying kick is the same for a teir 1 monk as a Teir 13. Thats it, Thats all, everything else was more or less ok.
I am not saying to scrap everything you have worked on, I think a lot of it is really cool and I think the combo system was messy and once the new system is tuned I think people will prefer it. But once again, monks weren't really asking to be able to tank better, even situationally, they were just asking that their dps be looked at in relation to other classes post teir 9.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
monks have the same problems in 6 man as other melee classes on high tier 6 man (Less mob uptime, not being able to crit unless you bring along a enchanter/paladin) while having comparatively low burst DPS, with part of their burst DPS coming from a BP proc. Although monks are still more desirable than druids and beastlords in high tier 6 man so I cant really complain. However, monks are very good in emberflow when on tier, because splitting is pretty useful but other classes can CC the mobs pretty well if played correctly.
More of an issue of 6 man encounter balance rather than class balance though
Nebi
Dalayan Pious Diety
This is literally how class distribution should be in terms of tanking
- Real Main Tank - Should be Warrior
- OFF TANKS / worse main tanks - Should be Paladin or Shadowknight
- Tanks that take increased damage but still better than casters - Monks, Rangers . obviously a monk shoudl tank better than a ranger. but that does not mean a monk should get anywhere close to a paladin or a shadow knight. if anything reduce the amount of tanking a ranger can do.
- WTF WHY TANKS? Everyone else
All im saying is if monks want to do 1k+ dps and want to tank then they better not get anywhere near the territory of a paladin or a shadow knight. under no circumstances should a monk being a dps and a OFF tank be a 1k+ dps and a exp group monster.
edit: if anything a monks tanking ability to tank should be increased by the amount of people that are auxing for the monk. that way if you want the monk to tank then you need to have everyone auxing for that guy. this is where I personally see it being ok for a monk to dps and to be able to tank... having all the healers and casters auxing for him.
I completely and tottally agree. monks should not tank as well or paladins or sk's, of course they tank no where near as good as paladins or sk's now.
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I would say every mnk would agree. None of us are asking for Ranger DPS and none of us are asking for the tank ability of a tank. 1k DPS may be to high, maybe 900 is more balanced. but a BALANCE between the 2 must be found.
I also think everyone here understands they cant Tank and Dmg at the same time. (except warriors but thats a different story. Ripo Dmg FTW!)
I also think everyone here understands they cant Tank and Dmg at the same time. (except warriors but thats a different story. Ripo Dmg FTW!)
You have brain damage. I am telling you this because I am your friend and I want to help you.
1200 dps may seem like a lot to you but that is only because you have no frame of reference for what the high end game is like. Jaec should not be doing 1200dps, he is a baby monk. but Susvain probably should be.
Everytime I try to twist the word vomit you sputter out into something that vaguely resembles a coherent thought it makes me want to drink poison.
Everytime I try to twist the word vomit you sputter out into something that vaguely resembles a coherent thought it makes me want to drink poison.
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Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
I would say at T13 a monk should do somewhere between 800 and 950 ish dps in dps mode. That would put them just under most casters. There are plenty of fights where the casters are doing 1k or sub 1kdps, and I think monks should not do caster dps.