We All Love Monks, Here

how the mighty have fallen. shamans the years of ridicule are over! our statistical buffs are now wanted!
 
Still need to aug for surviving pulls since I'm not a T13, no matter what pulling will come before my dps...
 
I don't even think str/dex scaling for fists works. Slaar said I should punch for as much damage now as I did with the overcap HtH system.

Average punch with old system was 100-103 damage.
Average punch currently is 60-62 damage.

No idea how losing 3 base fist damage could drop my average hit that much even if the str/dex scaling simply didn't work.

I've asked for years for a dps aug of some sort in refuge, never even gotten a staff reply.

Also, if the str/dex thing stays, monks will somehow need to free up 2 more slots. Plus if acumen/regen do anything to our stam regen now, we need to keep using those. There are way too many buffs now at the high end to deal with, even before you factor in pulling/fighting and having debuffs and shit cast on you.
 
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I asked Slaar about Stam regen and such. He said since our stances dont use stam so probably not as useful as before. We see on that eventually.

Also Slaar has tested my Ratio (after 1st patch anyways) and found it working. I even got shammy stats at the time and slaar told me my ratio went up. I would say its working.

AC augs are important I agree, but Nwaij has a interesting point about augging Str/Dex. At the least, its food for thought.
 
I did two 15 minute parses with fists, one without sham stats and one with, my punch dps changed by less than 2. So yeah feel free to gimp your AC for no dps gain.

Every single aspect of this change needed to be tested for at least another month or two rather than just being pushed live and completely fucking over a class that was supposed to be getting improved.

cornelweezy said:
Monks are still FD pulling at T13? man, life really sucks for them.
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There are a couple pulls at the end of Tur'ruj but that's it out of all the t13 content.
 
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Jaec said:
I asked Slaar about Stam regen and such. He said since our stances dont use stam so probably not as useful as before. We see on that eventually.

Also Slaar has tested my Ratio (after 1st patch anyways) and found it working. I even got shammy stats at the time and slaar told me my ratio went up. I would say its working.

AC augs are important I agree, but Nwaij has a interesting point about augging Str/Dex. At the least, its food for thought.
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I am glad that Slaariel has appointed you to speak for him on the forums, I can't think of anyone better to do it.
 
It could be that with the changes, Mnk fist ratio got messed up? IDK, only slaar can tell us that. What I do know is that when the changes went live Slaar tested the ratio change on me mid-raid, got some shammy stats and was told my ratio before and after.

oh almost forgot, Burt6, Shut up.
 
Jaec said:
It could be that with the changes, Mnk fist ratio got messed up? IDK, only slaar can tell us that.
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Only slaar could tell that? I disagree. I think the majority of people testing this and posting how much lower monk dps can confirm that the ratios are messed up.
 
Pecannius said:
Only slaar could tell that? I disagree. I think the majority of people testing this and posting how much lower monk dps can confirm that the ratios are messed up.
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what this guy said. Also even if my fist ratios werent broken they still wouldnt be worth using because blazewind gloves have been the same DPS as undercity gloves for YEARS now
 
ITT monks

nderAq1.gif


You're right, fist damage does look a little low.
 
Tevinter said:
what this guy said. Also even if my fist ratios werent broken they still wouldnt be worth using because blazewind gloves have been the same DPS as undercity gloves for YEARS now
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Actually the 5 more HtH on UC gloves outweighs the slightly higher proc dps on BW gloves. T13 gloves are a straight decrease compared to t10 gloves against almost all relevant content.

It's okay though Jumbers told me that HtH mods were being evaluated back when this change happened. So based on sod patch history I can confidently say this issue will be fixed.... literally never.
 
Jaec said:
Sabuti, Slaar alrdy knows. So yeah, if it was shady id be banned/jailed atm. {...}
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Yeah, just like the tons of items that got nerfed years after their introduction because they were unbalanced right? Or letting warriors keep using "broken" mechanics with said items forever until it became common place enough to get nerfed?

Honestly, the only reason people care is because their DPS all seems to have dropped consistently across the board but you are claiming yours hasn't suffered as much as what other people seem to be reporting. With 20-50% dps drops people are gonna wanna know how you are testing because maybe just maybe, with crowd sourcing and other people who are dedicating themselves to being useful and not intentionally an irritating prick, we might be able to help the one or two admins working on fixing this thing that will benefit the whole server or maybe narrow down where the tweaking needs to be done. From what I understand about testing and programing in general is the more access to data and records, especially under different conditions with more common and uncommon variables (IE different gear, aas and even levels), inevitable leads to more accurate data which will in turn lead to a quicker and more satisfying resolution for everyone. However, if your secret is that you just play with your sense of superiority stuffed up your ass please feel free to continue to keep it to yourself.

The Aux tanking thing... I never loved it as a defining monk thing. I felt like it was like 'Hey, you aren't really gonna get competitive DPS so here is something to kinda let you do something you already kinda did.' I think a lot of that is that there are just vague or poorly defined class roles. Is this a game in which you DPS as the class that fits your specific flavor (in which anything considered a pure DPS class should always be even, like a <5% variation in DPS when comparatively geared/AA) or is this a game where each class has its own reason to exist and there are fights were it is necessary to have a specific class for X reason (in which case each class needs to have a reason to be in every raid). Right now it feels like this game is a bad mix of both for some classes.

I thought fighting with bare hands was supposed to be the thing that made monks unique. I thought the trade off to not having stats in those slots was that fists were great DPS. From what I got from start to finish in this thread is: GMs think split pulling is dumb, but everyone else loves it and thinks its necessary for most of the raiding content the majority of guilds on this server are in but no longer required for one guild in the highest of tiers so they wont fuck with it if they can avoid it but did anyway. GMs don't think anyone who is not a tank should be getting hit by mobs and survive, but people are used to having to make due with impromptu tanking during the last 5% of a boss to avoid a wipe on new content or when an add peels off onto a healer because the sky scrapper sized boss blocks pretty much all vision in his direction and if you don't have all your spell graphics off it can be that much harder to notice, so monks get a little bump which is likely to make life harder on the raid than the actually intention.

So, people will want monks more now because? You only ever needed one before and their role of FD puller can be replaced by a talented SK or Necro. Necro does more damage, can mez, give mana back to his group, self healing is baked into their damage, and they don't need extra healing because they are ranged so they don't get hit by all those AoE's that a melee would be subject to... So even with the damage boost putting monks higher on the DPS chart (theoretically) what is the point of a monk? They have twice as much Aux as an off tank but need 3x as much healing? You are gonna need some split pulling and some good dps for boss fights, bring a necro. Need split pulling and a little off tanking bring an SK. Where do monks fit in?

If Auxing is going to be their niche then they need to be able to do it without a DPS loss and more importantly, they need to be able to do it without further draining the resources of their team. Being the best Aux means shit if you are making the healers oom faster. I see a lot of "let us ignore parry/riposte" which seems like a great idea now but will likely lead to either unbalanced content or strong nerfs both of which will eventually lead us back here. Why not just make it so Monks Aux from behind. Hell, lower the amount to the norm if its seen as too over powered but this dual stance thing just seems terrible.

You can't make monks have to choose between DPS and utility when they don't do either well or at all. Sacrificing your already low DPS to help the tank mitigate 30-40 damage a hit as if that helped the healer's mana having to also heal you who takes significantly more damage per hit and has a much lower health pool to be taking these hits from.

I am sorry, but I went from very optimistic about this update to angry and depressed. I know DPS will be fixed but now is seems like there is more wrong with monks than there was before. They went from needing an update to still needing an update and narrowly avoiding being crippled by the nerf bat.
 
to avoid the riposte damage issue, you can use a poopoo 2h because hey, you're not doing any dps no matter what weps you use
#themoreyouknow
 
Okay, first things first, I agree with this guy, The complete sum of our situation.

2nd, let me clarify something, I never revealed I had a secret, Nwaij did. What I have wouldn't help the testing AT ALL. You think it will cause you think I have some item, or something that just makes my DPS jump! Its a situational trick that is great, but it also shows the stupidity of 1 of these updates and will probably be nerfed here soon as it becomes more and more apparent that this particular area was stupid. I have tried to refrain from saying anything about because IF you haven't realized it by now its because u have never paid attention to it before and you HAVENT been able to use cause of its situationalness. And for those that DO know the trick Don't use or share it cause its NOT THAT GREAT. Originally I kept this back because if it came out it would more or less get nerfed, or cause this entire Mnk thing to go a whole different direction. Now I keep it back because I see no reason that I should tell you my secret that I learned to use to boost my DPS before this even happened, and if you cant find ways to supplement your own DPS its cause your not looking. So don't accuse me of being some high horse idiot that does things for my own pride cause if u ever were even IN a guild with me you would find that I am the laughing stock of most situations. Now, SHUT THE HECK UP and focus. I said this was over now it is. Stop pointing fingers and acting like I have some key to your DPS, You have the key, its called YOUR MIND. Use it and MAYBE ull realize how to supplement your DPS some! Now this is done. Forget the fact u ever saw Nwaij's Parse. All it shows is that Something about Mnks needs changed or more nerfs need done to things pertaining to Mnks. All it is, is the forerunner of bad news for the mnk changes atm.

3rd, 2hb needs a beef on mnks/bst, and if that Overpowers The great 2hb u get at T13, Entropy or whatever then the weapon needs Nerfed. I have played this game since 2006 (on and off alot) And in that time i have found 2hb to be ridiculously worthless. Why use a 2hb? Its slow, if u miss your DPS dies and it doesn't put out the DPS u want. Before they were likes cause u could get good AE aggro with WW stance. Now we have round kick, but I have felt and said it several times that 2hb needs something given to it. Auxing against Ripos is alot easier when u got the weapon bonus and ure not swinning 10 times a second. How do you balance it? idk. I have suggested more Stam generation and been shot down. MAybe increased dmg? better procs on the 2hb IDK but yeah, 2hb aint worth it till u get to the mighty Entropy's Spine, at which point it will be nerfed cause too many Mnks have it and the "realization" of how OP it is has donned on everyone.
 
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