Warriors the defunct SOD class

Warriors do shine on raids. They are better tanks than both Paladins and SKs.

Warriors: Best mitigation (period), stances that further increase their mitigation, foelock, /shield command, Area Taunt. Not intended for DPS.
Paladin: Best AE aggro tank (stuns, etc), can use HoT, undead crits/nukes, innate crit from level 1. Does the most DPS of the tank classes.
Shadowknight: Best single target aggro with their terror line, has aggro visages, can FD, etc
 
Yes..

Can I just verify what you are saying? That I should have /ooc'ed and that someone would have replied
'Dont bother to roll a warrior as there's no point?'
I'm pretty sure no-one would have made that reply, or they would have been grilled in /ooc. Besides your answer just supports my arguments that there are problems inherent to the class. And BTW Dongsy, I'm glad you found my post laughable, but I thought I had better just explain that 'Moot' means to 'bring up for discussion', which was my intention. Perhaps you should go and look it up!

DPS is DPS. To have a warriors capable of switching into a Zerker type class would just make the game more variable. There are many DPS classes already, it would not detract from anything.
The consensus seems to be 'get over it and make a new character'. IMO. it should be: There is a problem with the warrior class why don't we do something about it?

I guess I'll maybe keep the warrior in case things change in the future. I'll stop posting on this now, and go and make a new character. Thanks to the Devs. for listening anyhow.
 
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SyncMizer said:
Turn them into switchable Zerkers. Or else I disagree because THEY ARE USELESS and should be dropped. I'm sure the guilds who wheel out these Bots will disagree, but you have to ask what message you want to send to new players.
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You have 2 non-bot MTs for guilds replying to you in this thread disagreeing with you. We both made it somehow. Was it easy? No. Was it possible? Yes. When did I become MT for my guild (which was in Tier 2 at the time)? At about 300AAs. If you're not willing to put in the work, then the class may not be for you.

Necros and enchanters also commonly complain they're not in demand for groups. So the "message you want to send to new players" is basically "Roll a Wizard, Rogue, or Cleric or you'll be useless"?

Edit: And if you're willing to put in the effort to start a group, you won't have much trouble getting them, especially if you make friends with, or can box a healer. There's always DPS available.
 
Warriors dont suck. Warriors are fine the way they are. Just because we dont need so many of them means they suck...

Man, when will u get that?
 
I really don't understand why you're griping, I saw numinous running 3 warriors, an SK, and a pally the other night.

If it's that bad, play a different class.
 
"Man, when will u get that?"

Being not needed is no fun. Especially when your primary class ability has been usurped by a bot. Perhaps you should read the thread Beittil. I think your missing the point. As far as I knew Grimar your MT stopped playing years ago, or did I 'not get' that either?

And the fact that other tanks made it to raid positions in the past is irrelevant to the situation currently.

I've made my point as clearly and logically (and politely) as I think I can. I said I thought players in guilds that bot tanks would disagree and I was correct. I've got to get on with other work now. But suffice to say, no-one has provided a solution to the problem - and there is a problem for the last time!
 
SyncMizer said:
"Man, when will u get that?"

Being not needed is no fun. Especially when your primary class ability has been usurped by a bot. Perhaps you should read the thread Beittil. I think your missing the point. As far as I knew Grimar your MT stopped playing years ago, or did I 'not get' that either?

And the fact that other tanks made it to raid positions in the past is irrelevant to the situation currently.

I've made my point as clearly and logically (and politely) as I think I can. I said I thought players in guilds that bot tanks would disagree and I was correct. I've got to get on with other work now. But suffice to say, no-one has provided a solution to the problem - and there is a problem for the last time!
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Ow i have been reading this thread alright, it has been good comedy. Heh

Also, yes Grimar is a bot. Yes, the real Grimar stopped playing a while ago. So? We decided to continue with Grimar as a botted MT because that was just a MUCH MORE reliable option then AA'ing, toming & gearing a new warrior. Though luck for the new and young MT'ed warriors out there? Sure. Do we care? No.

Now. Please. Go do something else or something.
 
SyncMizer said:
And the fact that other tanks made it to raid positions in the past is irrelevant to the situation currently.
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There's nothing different now from the situation back then. There were botted MT warriors back then too. Warriors weren't any better DPS. Raiding guilds still would rather have more DPS than more than 1 warrior. Oh, there was a difference, we couldn't buy that deepmetal plate armor that you have to give us that leg up. Also we didn't have Foelock.

I've made my point as clearly and logically (and politely) as I think I can. I said I thought players in guilds that bot tanks would disagree and I was correct.
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Why don't you address the players in guilds that do NOT bot tanks that are here disagreeing with you?
 
Fair respect to http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=gunder and any other real warrior tanks out there. Built by someone, rather than some-team.

But how a warrior right now, gets from being DM Geared with say a few hundred AAs to joining guilds that are wanting to tackle high tier content is the problem I'm highlighting - its particular to the warrior class. This thread has its own closure IMO, its going in circles & goes back to my first post.
 
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Do you have a link to your fomelo? You talk up having 100 AAs like you've beaten the game and you can't develop your toon anymore. 100 AAs isn't jack and not enough to finish the very basic tank aas probably. There is better gear than deepmetal that you can buy, and there is no-drop stuff you can get without a raid.

Want to play a warrior? Start your own guild or join a lower tiered raiding guild. Most lower tiered guilds don't have a 'raid roster' and will take in multiple tanks, etc. Play way more than the 'other guy' in said guild, develop you toon more out of raids (AAs, quests, etc) and become the main tank.

Your thread sounds like senseless whining and bitching. There is no chance in hell that you are going to get your class switched.
 
You don't get to skip from some DM gear and one hundred AAs to raiding high-tier content as a warrior. Nobody else thinks this qualifies as a problem.

You can get to the point of raiding high-tier content as others have pointed out, it's just not likely that you'll get picked up by a group of geared players who want to back-farm and help you AA until you are ready.
 
I think you two are kind of missing the point. I'm not going to keep repeating the same dumb points. Read the earlier postings, and not just mine.


Edit: But I'm glad my post has raised some heat! Very!
 
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SyncMizer said:
I think you two are kind of missing the point. I'm not going to keep repeating the same dumb points. Read the earlier postings, and not just mine.
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I get your point. You are pissed off that you made a warrior and you can't get a guild. You think the best solution is getting your class changed or giving warrior a stance that allows them to DPS like a rogue or monk or someshit (LoL). You are also pissed off that other guilds box warriors that they WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF to gear up. You also want some stuff better than deepmetal (which is like on par with tier 3 raid gear) that is easily obtainable without a raid.
 
Yes, if you want to jump into a mid+ tier guild, no, you are not going to do it as a warrior, and to lesser extent, pally/sk. You could jump in if you were a dps/healer, but not as a tank. But those people aren't going to be doing much to help the guild. Yes, as a tank, you are dependent on your gear to make you able to do your job. Did you not understand that warriors were gear dependent when you creating your warrior?

If you want to raid, it requires *WORK*. Including farming tmaps, and lower tiers REPEATEDLY. AAing everyone in the guild to a decent point. At 100ish AAs, your lacking some of your major AAs, much less many other good/decent AAs. Bitching because higher guilds wont take you into raids/guild? Seriously. GET OVER YOURSELF. If you want into the raid game, go start yourself a guild, or find a low tier guild that is looking for a warrior. ALL classes have to raid up from low tier on up before they are worthwhile in high tier environments, not just warriors.

If you want an example of a recent warrior who isn't a reused bot, look at Tyvec.

As a tank, raids count on that toon to have the best gear possible. Because if the tank(s) are weak, the raid goes splat. PERIOD. If your guild is tier 8, know how long it will take to regear/AA/tome/Charm a new tank before they can continue raiding in a similar tier? Think 6 months or so. A guild isn't going to wait for 1 person to gear up before the rest of the guild can continue advancing.

This isn't a flaw or a problem or any other such bs. It is merely the point of a roleplaying game. Its like saying that your a lvl 40 warrior, lvl 65 chars wont let you be main tank for their group, and your saying you have a problem with this. So you think your lvl 40 warrior should be able to do something to allow warriors to act like a monk. Do you think a 65 group would want a lvl 40 monk? You HAVE to advance more before your useful in the higher groups/raids.

Levels are what you measure how hard of zones you can take on from 1-64. At 65, your gear/AAs is what you use as a measure. Think of a 65 warrior in DM/100AAs as a level 30 toon. Mid-tiered guilds are using the equivelent of a lvl 45 warrior. A tier-10 guild is using the equivelent of a lvl 65 warrior.

Now, about warriors fulfilling only 1 role?
Well, what about clerics, they only fulfill 1 role as well. And it wasn't fair, because all the guilds are only recruiting DPS. They want an ability to temporarily change all their healing spells into wizard spells. What do you think that would do for the game?

Or how about a monk. And they didn't like their role. And it wasn't fair, because all the guilds are only recruiting tanks. Sure, they can tank ok, but not great. They want the ability to magically turn into a warrior, and give up their dps. What do you think that would do to the game?

If you start along the path of magical switching to other classes, eventually there will only be 1 class, and everyone can do exactly the same thing as any other person.

So stop whining. If you want to do X job and you are a Y class, either give up your toon and start a new X. Or learn to enjoy doing the Y job.
 
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Like someone said earlier, short of making a new guild forget it.
/yawn. Someone make a stronger point please!

EDIT: I am a bloody cleric :) Read the posts!
 
The point is that warriors won't be dramatically changed to have more DPS. Their purpose is to hold aggro and take damage, not give it out. You could use a 2HS/2HB to increase the DPS if you really wanted to.
 
SyncMizer said:
Like someone said earlier, short of making a new guild forget it.
/yawn. Someone make a stronger point please!

EDIT: I am a bloody cleric :) Read the posts!
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There are lots of strong counterpoints to your warrior concerns in this thread. You've said repeatedly that warriors are a dead end class, but they are no more so crippled by the lack of want than a number of other classes.

SyncMizer said:
Can I just verify what you are saying? That I should have /ooc'ed and that someone would have replied
'Dont bother to roll a warrior as there's no point?'
I'm pretty sure no-one would have made that reply
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I can assure you that a few people would have described to you how warriors have difficulty finding a raiding guild. I've seen this exact scenario play out in ooc a number of times. Of course, if your ambitions are not to raid heavily, then the class is more than suitable.

I am curious as to the fact that you have declined to provide a Fomelo link to your warrior or even respond intelligently to any of the numerous points that have been raised to the contrary of your argument, so I'll reiterate.

The class is very useful in raids and groups.
There is better gear than Deepmetal and more AA's after 100ish. Seriously, droppable gear can take you a LONG way at this point in the game.
Warriors serve a specific and important role in SoD. We don't need to be Berserkers.
Yes, 1 warrior is usually enough on raids. The same can be said for a number of different classes, and that isn't to say that a second warrior is not particularly beneficial situationally.
MOST (yes, most) raiding guild tanks are not rebuilt, reused bots. I can name ~10 MT's that are still mained out of maybe 13 active raiding guilds in the mid-high tiers.

Does the class have its problems? Yes. Is it a defunct class with more problems than other classes out there? Negative.
 
Warriors are fine as-is. The raid game is fine as-is. The only class that needs some love is the rangers - we should have FD, moon comet, claws of the chill, and a 99% chance to proc a death-touch just by targetting NPC's and PC's, as well as a 4 hour self-buff that spams us with CH every tick.

Oh yeah...did I mention that instead of consuming arrows, it should add a random amount of pp from 5-500 every time we range attack? Deffo got to have that too.
 
SyncMizer said:
But how a warrior right now, gets from being DM Geared with say a few hundred AAs to joining guilds that are wanting to tackle high tier content is the problem I'm highlighting
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You do this by finding a group of other people with low AAs and pre-raid or entry tier gear, form a guild, and fight through all the tiers (XPing along the way to get your AAs and tomes up), gearing all those people, until that group can tackle high tier content. That's the way everyone else did it. Numinos just did that in an amazingly short amount of time (~1 yearish?).

And once you get there, that guild will want YOUR toon as their MT because of all the work they've put in to get you there. If you decide to quit, sure they'll take over your toon if they can rather than look for an under-geared, under-AAd warrior to try to replace you.

The inability to skip tiers and join an old raiding guild with a new toon is not a problem. It's part of the challenge and fun of the game. If you skip all the tiers in between and just straight to the end of the game, you miss all that fun and your time in SoD (or any game you do this with) is greatly shortened.
 
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