Warrior Stances and Hate

Yami

Yami

Staff Emeritus
After reading the other topic about the differences between a warrior with no Cmal gloves or even Cmal 1 and Cmal 3 gloves, there seems to be a big gap in the warriors ability to hold agro. So this got me thinking on our styles, the one thing the warrior is very dependent on outside of gear. Since we have zero spells. Taken from the Wiki..

Warrior Styles Name Level Description
(1) Normal 1 The most basic combat style. Does not affect your combat in any way.
(2) Aggressive 1 Puts you into an aggressive stance, sacrificing avoidance for increased attack speed.
(3) Defensive 1 Puts you into a defensive stance, sacrificing attack speed for increased avoidance.
(4) Driving Attack 15 Increases generated hate, moderate stamina consumption
(5) Deftful Dance 15 [Small Race Only] Increase avoidance
(6) Steel Barrier 25 Decrease attack speed, increase mitigation, parry, riposte, and shield block
(7) Furious Assault 35 [Requires Two-Handed Weapon] Increase spell interrupt chance
(8) Living Shield 45 Decrease damage, increase hate, increase mitigation
(9) Unyielding Stance 55 Increase Mitigation
(10) Frenzied Attack 55 Increase attack speed, decrease avoidance, lose parry, riposte, dodge, and shield block
(11) Final Stand 60 Decrease damage taken to 1, die on exhaustion
(12) Vindicator's Stance 65 Increase Mitigation

I'm not sure if its possible but maybe a change or small addition of a hate component(proc or just a base line %) to the level 55 or 65 stance. I'd love to use Driving attack in a raid situation, but its just not possible. The amount of damage I would take in that time isn't worth the cost. So I'm stuck using Unyielding Stance / Vindicator's stance (still not sure the Mitigation %'s on these).

So shooting for a better balance on the warrior's progression, would it be possible to add a hate component to one of these styles? What this would do is lessen the need for snap agro per say, and still give the upcoming/under geared players the ability to hold agro without living in Cmal till they obtain cmal 3 gloves. Not to mention giving the higher geared warriors the ability to actually replace them with something. As it stands now no main tank / off tank can afford to replace the cmal 3 gloves even through thaz/prison.

Just an idea.
 
To be totally honest, I don't see a reason why Vindicator's Stance couldn't see a 5-10% agro generation increase. The difference between a warrior with no Cmal gloves and one with Cmal3 gloves is pretty insane, and pre-Advanced Anatomy/Cmal3 warriors are just terrible at holding agro, period.
 
I endorse this idea fully. having a warrior as a main i knew what its like to deal with aggro without gloves and advanced anatomy and this would help those without.
 
Well apparently there's something out there if Forsaken's main tank, big dog of the server himself or maybe it's just a bot by now I don't really know, but he seems to have been without cmal 3 gloves for some time or he still uses them and just has a really big ego with the fomelo stuff and equips those endless rage gauntlets for looks while he's not raiding.

Regardless of that, seemingly the server agrees a warrior needs cmal 3 gloves and will use them for hate over everything else they might get from raids during their careers. I'm not sure I agree with making things easier on a warrior however. I think they do pretty fine on aggro. A decently geared warrior can take hate from my sk in a second if I let them(if I don't cast my jolt which is almost entirely a sk's ability to hold hate, is by jolting a mob with our jolt spells and removing others hate.) I like that a warrior's ability to hold aggro depends on the team backing him up(in raid or groups)to work together so that the warrior holds his hate and the rewards for working together and playing with your brains pays off in loot at the high end raid game where warriors are a must.

The most common misconception is that it's the tanks job alone to hold hate and that is false. It's a team effort. Perhaps warriors need something more to balance things out alittle better, especially for those cmal 3 gloveless war tanks out there, but giving them any kind of big upgrade for more hate is a low blow to SKs. SKs stay in business for their aggro control, perhaps their FD for pulling. Warrior stays in business for their ac and hp. I like to see it stay that way. While I know the cmal 3 gloves are a bitch to get as I've spent countless hours there helping warriors try to get their stupid ass cmal 3 gloves with my enc(haven't seen it drop ever, for 8 months of being there on and off), but at least you have cmal 3 gloves to get. It's better than not having anything at all.
 
Rorahen said:
Well apparently there's something out there if Forsaken's main tank, big dog of the server himself or maybe it's just a bot by now I don't really know, but he seems to have been without cmal 3 gloves for some time or he still uses them and just has a really big ego with the fomelo stuff and equips those endless rage gauntlets for looks while he's not raiding.
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Man, I don't know what your deal is with forsaken, but you really are proving yourself to be a dumb troll. Honestly, I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, although it is hard to decifer, but if you are going to be such a flaming retard its hard to endorse your point of view.
 
Rorahen said:
Well apparently there's something out there if Forsaken's main tank, big dog of the server himself or maybe it's just a bot by now I don't really know, but he seems to have been without cmal 3 gloves for some time or he still uses them and just has a really big ego with the fomelo stuff and equips those endless rage gauntlets for looks while he's not raiding.

Regardless of that, seemingly the server agrees a warrior needs cmal 3 gloves and will use them for hate over everything else they might get from raids during their careers. I'm not sure I agree with making things easier on a warrior however. I think they do pretty fine on aggro. A decently geared warrior can take hate from my sk in a second if I let them(if I don't cast my jolt which is almost entirely a sk's ability to hold hate, is by jolting a mob with our jolt spells and removing others hate.) I like that a warrior's ability to hold aggro depends on the team backing him up(in raid or groups)to work together so that the warrior holds his hate and the rewards for working together and playing with your brains pays off in loot at the high end raid game where warriors are a must.

The most common misconception is that it's the tanks job alone to hold hate and that is false. It's a team effort. Perhaps warriors need something more to balance things out alittle better, especially for those cmal 3 gloveless war tanks out there, but giving them any kind of big upgrade for more hate is a low blow to SKs. SKs stay in business for their aggro control, perhaps their FD for pulling. Warrior stays in business for their ac and hp. I like to see it stay that way. While I know the cmal 3 gloves are a bitch to get as I've spent countless hours there helping warriors try to get their stupid ass cmal 3 gloves with my enc(haven't seen it drop ever, for 8 months of being there on and off), but at least you have cmal 3 gloves to get. It's better than not having anything at all.
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First of all, Linken only equips cmal3 gloves to click them and thats it. Why wear them all the time and lower your stats? Second, SK 'jolt' spells don't lower other peoples agro, they just increase ours by quite a lot. Hate generation between SKs and Warriors at the high end is pretty balanced, SKs can reach much higher levels of agro, Warriors can take agro from anybody with a Taunt that actually works. It's pre-cmal1/3 gloves that warriors need help, and hating agro generation to a style of theres could be the answer.
 
Rorahen said:
Well apparently there's something out there if Forsaken's main tank, big dog of the server himself or maybe it's just a bot by now I don't really know, but he seems to have been without cmal 3 gloves for some time or he still uses them and just has a really big ego with the fomelo stuff and equips those endless rage gauntlets for looks while he's not raiding.

Regardless of that, seemingly the server agrees a warrior needs cmal 3 gloves and will use them for hate over everything else they might get from raids during their careers. I'm not sure I agree with making things easier on a warrior however. I think they do pretty fine on aggro. A decently geared warrior can take hate from my sk in a second if I let them(if I don't cast my jolt which is almost entirely a sk's ability to hold hate, is by jolting a mob with our jolt spells and removing others hate.) I like that a warrior's ability to hold aggro depends on the team backing him up(in raid or groups)to work together so that the warrior holds his hate and the rewards for working together and playing with your brains pays off in loot at the high end raid game where warriors are a must.

The most common misconception is that it's the tanks job alone to hold hate and that is false. It's a team effort. Perhaps warriors need something more to balance things out alittle better, especially for those cmal 3 gloveless war tanks out there, but giving them any kind of big upgrade for more hate is a low blow to SKs. SKs stay in business for their aggro control, perhaps their FD for pulling. Warrior stays in business for their ac and hp. I like to see it stay that way. While I know the cmal 3 gloves are a bitch to get as I've spent countless hours there helping warriors try to get their stupid ass cmal 3 gloves with my enc(haven't seen it drop ever, for 8 months of being there on and off), but at least you have cmal 3 gloves to get. It's better than not having anything at all.
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I played a warrior up past 100 AA's and aggro was abysmal. Experience groups blew chunks and I never tanked a raid mob (PR had many other warriors at the time so my skills weren't need. Shit, we had Aratar tanking mobs back then, and still had a few extra warriors). I think there have been a few changes that took place since then, like more hate proc weapons and such. Back then it was Tentacle Whip and then Ragebearer. Before then there was nothing.
 
Just throwing this out there ... but high end warriors never use a shield, what about providing warriors with a dual role, dual wielding for dps, when tanking throw a shield on them with a Shield Taunt stance for improved aggro generation. Would provide a variety for warriors, plus give them a reason to shoot for a shield as well.
 
Xardon said:
Just throwing this out there ... but high end warriors never use a shield, what about providing warriors with a dual role, dual wielding for dps, when tanking throw a shield on them with a Shield Taunt stance for improved aggro generation. Would provide a variety for warriors, plus give them a reason to shoot for a shield as well.
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Never is quite a strong word. Shields provide an enormous ammout of AC/hp and other stats, and can be a nice boost on particularily hard mobs.
 
or by hard you mean perma rooted. Highend wars switch out xardon when they have established enough hate to lesson the dps inc on them.
 
implying a shield stance? lol no. There are 4 stances warriors use at 65. aggressive, frenzied, vindicators and unyielding.
 
on raid mobs such as mirrors in OP a shield is needed usually and say the warrior tanking a raid mob knows he established enough hate for the battle he could switch his secondary for a shield to help take less damage thus putting less mana stress on healers.

only problem is that if someone isnt careful they could steal aggro again its risky but could be worth it.
 
Living shield gives you a massive 75% boost to hate you do, and defensive bonuses equal to vindicator as well. I don't see why that doesn't fulfill the requirement for a start-of-the-fight aggro style. Yes, it's very expensive in endurance, but that's why it's so good.
 
Xardon said:
Just throwing this out there ... but high end warriors never use a shield, what about providing warriors with a dual role, dual wielding for dps, when tanking throw a shield on them with a Shield Taunt stance for improved aggro generation.  Would provide a variety for warriors, plus give them a reason to shoot for a shield as well.
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Warriors in grind groups (probably) never use a shield. Warriors definitely use shields though.
 
And one of the big drawbacks of shields is the fact that you dont have great aggro generation while using a shield. If this changed there would be no reason to ever not use a shield when tanking. Thats a no no imo.
 
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