Upper thaz

Since we learned about the script leaking issues we have successfully shared the zone with other guilds, it just requires a little bit of consideration.

Prison used to have a similar problem, some IP scripts leaked into OP (I totally remember Yashira raping Fusion during a manis attempt). A shout or some coordination between raidleaders ( one raid takes the opportunity to refresh and poop while another engages the problem encounter) makes it a nonissue.

I would still love to see these issues fixed so that there wasn't even a reason to argue about it though.
 
robopirateninja said:
Since we learned about the script leaking issues we have successfully shared the zone with other guilds, it just requires a little bit of consideration.

Prison used to have a similar problem, some IP scripts leaked into OP (I totally remember Yashira raping Fusion during a manis attempt). A shout or some coordination between raidleaders ( one raid takes the opportunity to refresh and poop while another engages the problem encounter) makes it a nonissue.

I would still love to see these issues fixed so that there wasn't even a reason to argue about it though.
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It's unfortunately impossible without completely redesigning quite a few encounters in the zone.

The walls don't and cannot block line of sight in most of the zone -- it's the way the zone was designed by that company.

If people are ok with things changing completely in a number of cases (lower fire boss, upper fire boss, etc.) then I'd be willing to tackle it, but it's not something that can be done in a day or two. I'd shoot for mid February or so.
 
I'm sure we'd rather have precious time spent on the upcoming expansion, rather than waste it tweaking something that is currently very functional.
 
I'm a little confused now, a couple of people have mentioned the Lower Thaz fire boss as an issue: under the current rules there can be a guild in each wing of lower thaz plus another claiming upper. This means that five raids could potentially be hit by that mob's abilities right now.

If this is the case how is separating the Thazeran fight (which is further in tier from upper thaz than upper is from lower, IMO) from the rest of Upper Thaz really any different?

@Xeldan: If you ask me, an ideal situation would be to make Lower Thaz one claimable unit (I never understood why it was four), Upper Thaz another, and Thaz himself a third, with scripts that didn't leak onto each other. It sounds like an overhaul of that depth will take a while though, so is there any possibility of (temporarily) handling Thazeran's fight the same way as the Eternal Well, taking place in a seperate zone?

I admit I'm no coding wizard so I don't know what limitations there are, and I'm not super familiar with EQ zones that aren't implemented yet, but there has to be somewhere in the game with a flat platform similar to the one where you fight Thaz now, and hopefully picking up the fight and dumping it into a new zone would be easier than rewriting all of the existing Thaz Tower encounters.

Another thought: Is it possible to have two versions of the same zone up at once? Having a copy of Thaz Tower with just Thaz himself in it could work too, and then you wouldn't have to change much of anything, just make the existing portal zone you into Thazeran's Sanctum instead of another section of the same zone.

@Cyrillis: I think the best option for now would be to separate the sections and see how it goes since it requires no more time investment from the Devs than a line in the Policy Plaza thread about claimable raidzones.
 
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Xeldan said:
It's unfortunately impossible without completely redesigning quite a few encounters in the zone.

The walls don't and cannot block line of sight in most of the zone -- it's the way the zone was designed by that company.

If people are ok with things changing completely in a number of cases (lower fire boss, upper fire boss, etc.) then I'd be willing to tackle it, but it's not something that can be done in a day or two. I'd shoot for mid February or so.
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I have a pretty poor understanding of the design aspect granted, but would it not be possible to just set the range so that it would hit a great deal of the given area, without being a worry about being exploitable (as players would I'd guess be way out of range before leaking became much of an issue in most places)?
 
cyryllis said:
I'm sure we'd rather have precious time spent on the upcoming expansion, rather than waste it tweaking something that is currently very functional.
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I'm not working on Kunark at all. I hardly have time to do anything, so I'm not going to commit to something I may not be able to finish (Kunark is a vastly larger undertaking than fixing these encounters, for example).

robopirateninja said:
@Xeldan: If you ask me, an ideal situation would be to make Lower Thaz one claimable unit (I never understood why it was four), Upper Thaz another, and Thaz himself a third, with scripts that didn't leak onto each other. It sounds like an overhaul of that depth will take a while though, so is there any possibility of (temporarily) handling Thazeran's fight the same way as the Eternal Well, taking place in a seperate zone?

I admit I'm no coding wizard so I don't know what limitations there are, and I'm not super familiar with EQ zones that aren't implemented yet, but there has to be somewhere in the game with a flat platform similar to the one where you fight Thaz now, and hopefully picking up the fight and dumping it into a new zone would be easier than rewriting all of the existing Thaz Tower encounters.
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I'm not opposed to making Lower Thaz claimable by a single guild, but that's really only a bandaid rather than a real fix. Thazeran taking place in a different zone would be difficult: it needs to be something that fits the encounter. The suggestion of using the 7th Hammer platform isn't a bad one, but I believe the jail code may play havoc with it.

robopirateninja said:
Another thought: Is it possible to have two versions of the same zone up at once? Having a copy of Thaz Tower with just Thaz himself in it could work too, and then you wouldn't have to change much of anything, just make the existing portal zone you into Thazeran's Sanctum instead of another section of the same zone.
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I'm not sure. I don't even know if we'd want to do that because it's too close to instancing, to be honest.

vistachiri said:
I have a pretty poor understanding of the design aspect granted, but would it not be possible to just set the range so that it would hit a great deal of the given area, without being a worry about being exploitable (as players would I'd guess be way out of range before leaking became much of an issue in most places)?
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Possible, yes.
 
I don't even know what the "7 hammers" area is, but if it is in the zone that's currently jail, and if the jail code would mess with Thaz's fight, I would hope that instancing jail would be less objectionable than instancing content people are actually supposed to experience. Besides, the jail mobs are cute enough but jail could be a catbox for all anyone should care- you aren't supposed to be in there anyways.

As far as "instancing" Thaz's encounter goes, as long as the portal is restricted the same way current respawns are I'm not sure why it really matters. It isn't really an "instance" as I understand the term, the content would not be available in multiple copies on demand, it would just be separated from other existing content that it doesn't play nicely with.

Also if anyone hasn't seen the area where you fight Thaz but wants to suggest zones it is basically Final Destination from Super Smash Brothers.
 
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The 7th hammer area was where you selected all your trials iirc. and as I recall it looks just like the thaz area.

Jail can easily be moved, without the catbox, as there are plenty of jail areas in a lot of zones. Most likely one can be found in an area that is not currently used or planned to be used in Ikisith. One being the new tutorial area of live
 
The only thing I could see doing is splitting up upper thaz - but allowing whoever got there first claim over thazeran himself. The point being that the long - long clear (all upper towers up) towards Thaz himself is too easy to have leap frogged by guilds who have already done him if guilds do not lay claim to it while clearing.

This is not to say that a guild give consent for whoever to do Thaz himself if they were not planning on doing it.

As for encounters overlapping the only real overlap is Thaz himself, lower fire and lower earth. This unfortunately can not be changed - and has to be weighed by the consenting guild.
 
What's the difference between this and the wings of tot? I mean if you haven't done djar but flame talon is up, should you also have claim of that if you're in djar wing?

Also, as a matter of practicality, UT is almost never totally up, and any guild that goes in to do all of UT with the intention of doing thaz immediately afterward is pretty unbelievable for the time investment. If UT was split by wings, and the first guild in had claim over thaz himself, then griefing would be a pretty severe problem. Keeping a single wing up seems like a pretty easy way to block other guilds from thaz himself.

A better solution would be to split the whole damn thing by wings, and change the thaz himself key to just beating all of UT once. This way if a guild goes in with the intention of doing thaz himself, then pity for them if they don't go there first. I don't really like the idea of guilds who have only just gotten the UT key going and checking out thaz anyway, all thanks to someone else's clear.
 
I agree with Mang. If you are going to claim an encounter...then do it. You cannot claim something that you may do later. It would be used to cockblock guilds too much if that was the case. At the moment only TU does Thaz himself, but once other guilds get there...it will be a huge clusterfuck.
 
Waldoff said:
The point being that the long - long clear (all upper towers up) towards Thaz himself is too easy to have leap frogged by guilds who have already done him if guilds do not lay claim to it while clearing.
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I don't think this is really relevant.

If you haven't cleared upper Thaz before, attempting Thazeran will PROBABLY be a waste of your time. If you've cleared UT before and want to claim Thaz you should be already be in the portal and clearing to him, not farting around in the Water wing or something.

As many others have said, it seems like ToT is a good model to follow: You claim the wing you are in, not that one and all the ones after it too. It wouldn't be fair to block people from Mephar wing while you clearing the Djar wing on your way to it. I don't think you should be able to block people from Thazeran from other wings in Thaz Tower either.

My $.02
 
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ToT has bookmarks. You can block someone from doing the next wing but they still get the key to resume.

This is more like Outer Prison which was cordoned off the same way for the same reason. Guild A would wait for guild B to begin clearing towards taeshlin, port in and kill him. This would make guild B unable to get the key to inner prison.

In the TOT example guild B might not be able to do the next wing but they will have gotten the next step in the key system.

Making it so the Thaz bosses themselves give you the key to Thaz himself is realistic but would be more work than you most likely think. If there is enough interest between guilds who do not just want to be able to down Thaz himself at their leisure I would not mind putting it on the docket.
 
Waldoff said:
Making it so the Thaz bosses themselves give you the key to Thaz himself is realistic but would be more work than you most likely think. If there is enough interest between guilds who do not just want to be able to down Thaz himself at their leisure I would not mind putting it on the docket.
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I don't really understand what you are suggesting, especially the italicized sentence.

Putting Thaz into another zone that requires a tot-style flag to hail and port your raid, or requires an assembled key from the 4 UT bosses sounds like a fine plan and would allow guilds on different tiers to use their respective content in Thaz Tower to its fullest extent.

Is adding "a chunk of key" to each boss and another combine to the elemental sealer really that difficult? I admit I have no clue.
 
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I think what Wold is saying is that IF he were to add something like a port to Thaz himself, it is going to be much more involved than simply killing each upper boss once for a chunk of a key.
 
The original design involved a key to access Thazeran, but that changed along with the raid size / respawn time changes way back when.
 
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