Upper Thaz Reevaluation

Rovans

Dalayan Beginner
When I first heard about the changes to Thaz making it harder I was pretty optimistic about it remembering how back when Amicii started Thaz I thought there wasnt much of a jump from lower to upper Thaz in difficulty. But I think that alot of UT was tweaked a bit too much. I've asked around to all the other guilds that are on tier or slightly over that tier but still raid that zone to make sure that we werent the only ones with these problems and they all agree to this.

Trash - I like the idea of what was done to the trash, it gave enchanters a bigger role as raider which is great. But I think some of the pulls were overdone a bit too much. With an on teir raid theres alot of trash pulls that easily go wrong w/ just a small thing like a mez resist on inc and some that can for the most part only be won by luck unless you just have the gear to zerg it and power through. It really sucks when the outcome of those pulls is heavily based on a chance resist of a enchanters mez rather then the skill of a monks split or a correct tag. I know that UT Fire and even Magmar the UT fire mini is up most of the time just due to the pull previous to him. Also I hear there was a nerf to Thaz mez cutting its durration to 1/2 or 1/3 of its original length which doesnt help the situations by much, I dunno if thats true but people wanted me to add it.

Upper Water boss - Without going into too much detail about it and giving away any strat leaks it pretty much seems like its a big anti box check and theres very little time to move around if your boxing. Post-change I have done this event boxxed in a pickup with a tank I would consider over UT tier 8.5k hp and 1.5k fomelo AC and I think we wiped once but after we were able to pull through mostly due to him not requiring so much healing, so its far from impossible to do. But with a on tier tank and on tier raid its much more difficult.

In a zone that use to hardly ever have a named up for more then a day or two there are named that now stay up for weeks and the only people who kill them for the most part are the guilds beyond that teir.
 
with a tank I would consider over UT tier 8.5k hp and 1.5k fomelo AC

Would you be able to link to the fomelo of the tank? I think people are having trouble adjusting because thaz was so easy prior but with the quality of loot that comes out of the zone that is sounding like a pretty on tier character and I'd like to see their gear and if they could possibly benefit from any upgrades out of thaz.
 
I don't know what the big fuss with Upper Water is.

We did it with 16 people, and 3-4 of us were two-boxing, myself included.

It really isn't hard, /auto follow. Just make sure you are not on the edge of the cone that does massive damage. You need to be on your toes and preferably call FAST on Vent.

It definitely is HARD, but I don't feel like it was too hard PERSONALLY.

One thing that is retarded is the Upper Fire 5 pull.

And another is the Upper Earth boss that requires 2 8k mana Chanters.
 
Aomi was the tank, he had about the same gear as now.

We did it with 16 people, and 3-4 of us were two-boxing, myself included.

It really isn't hard, /auto follow. Just make sure you are not on the edge of the cone that does massive damage. You need to be on your toes and preferably call FAST on Vent.

Aye, but i'd imagine your 16 were for the most part above par gear wise for the event as you were in Exo, at the very least you had a over-par tier tank. Like I said I have boxxed it and it wasnt that big of a deal with a tank that was above tier but when the whole raid is at par with the content your heals are having to land alot more frequently and on time and blindly healing on your first box while your 2nd box fights the KBs for a couple seconds to get to the other side is more of an issue.

And another is the Upper Earth boss that requires 2 8k mana Chanters.

Everyone else I have talked to has had some problems with upper earth aswell mostly about draining issues tho. I think since the changes the only guild who does this particular event regularly is Bane who is Generals geared (Generals am I correct?).

I didnt post much about Air because after the changes it was broke for a while so we havent had much of a chance to feel it out. Also fire, I cant say much about the difficulty of the mini/boss due to lack of people being able to get to them because of the the nasty pull on the way to the mini thats 2 unmezzable golems, 2 elementals. Now im not a monk so it might be 2 smaller pulls instead, but the general consensus from all the monks i've talked to either say its the 4 linked or that they havent tried it.
 
when the whole raid is at par with the content your heals are having to land alot more frequently and on time and blindly healing on your first box while your 2nd box fights the KBs for a couple seconds to get to the other side is more of an issue.

This sounds like it is working exactly as intended :psyduck:
 
I think he is.

Thaz still has better rewards than any similarly tiered zone: class-specific armor sets, priest archaics, and nearly complete (if not complete) slot coverage. It ought to be harder than other zones on tier. Besides, the situation you described was essentially the story in other zones before the thaz revamp.
 
Here's what happens. There are 5-6 areas within a few tiers that a guild might raid. If one is to hard, they'll move to another easier one. Thaz used to be too easy; that much is pretty easy to ascertain. But there are parts there that are pretty damn hard now, and it shows by what mobs are up day in and day out [they're up right now].

I don't have time to really post, so this will have to do. Basically, this is not intended, whatever the staff logic for why those mobs stay up is.
 
I think he is.

Thaz still has better rewards than any similarly tiered zone: class-specific armor sets, priest archaics, and nearly complete (if not complete) slot coverage. It ought to be harder than other zones on tier. Besides, the situation you described was essentially the story in other zones before the thaz revamp.

The thing is I don't even think it's harder that zones dropping comparable gear (I invite all complainers to step into undercity some time), it sounds like people are basically taking issue with it no longer easy street.
 
The thing is I don't even think it's harder that zones dropping comparable gear (I invite all complainers to step into undercity some time), it sounds like people are basically taking issue with it no longer easy street.

I agree with this entirely.

Not to mention, a large part of the reason for these targets being up is that there are 2 fewer guilds raiding this than there was a month or two ago (not becuase they couldn't kill the content.)
 
The thing is I don't even think it's harder that zones dropping comparable gear (I invite all complainers to step into undercity some time), it sounds like people are basically taking issue with it no longer easy street.

I don't think so. Rovan is not complaining. He is bringing up some issues. I personally think that the zone could use a couple of tweaks. But if the intent is to make it a higher tier zone, then that is fine with me. Currently, only over-tiered guilds can really do all the content. I don't think anyone in this thread is wanting or asking for easy street.

I also think that there are unintended consequences. I think that good pulling is required much less because so much of the content is linked. I also think that enchanters did not need to be nerfed there, if our chanter is telling the truth that the mez duration was significantly reduced.

And I hate to tin-foil here, but it sure seems that the people saying that there is nothing wrong are way over-tiered. I am not sure you guys would know if it is functioning as intended for on tier guilds or not.
 
Speaking with experience of a guild that used to rape everything available to us,when the Thaz revamp was made, we just didn't bother with Uthaz Air and Fire anymore...

Complete waste of time. There is just nothing invaluable there ( You could argue Cape of Lucid Energy but whatever ) drops to justify how these two wings were changed. Sorry but the lack of guild killing high-tiered target is just not an argument. If Bane wanted, they would go there but they still don't, why ? Reward VS Time

I got geared up when Exodus was in their prime and mostly wearing Thaz gear and not being maxed tomed and yes most of the content was easy but it definitely was not as easy as most people make it sound. Lthaz seems fine but Upper is quite a mess.
 
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Sorry but the lack of guild killing high-tiered target is just not an argument. If Bane wanted, they would go there but they still don't, why ? Reward VS Time

What gives you the impression that Bane doesn't go to UT? Shit, Bane raids UT at least once a week, and sometimes twice.

You're seriously saying that fewer guilds killing a tier isnt' an argument for more targets on that tier being up?

Let me break it down for you in simple terms: There are 100 hot dogs in my kitchen, and every 4-6 days the supply is replenished. If it's just me eating the hot dogs, there will be on average many more there at all times than if there were 3 or 4 people eating said hot dogs.

As per Bane and UT, that's because Bane is geared pretty much through UT with the exception of Thaz himself, although a couple drops for the newer members would still be an upgrade. Bane still clears stuff in UT when targets more on tier (Generals, Servius) arn't up.

I don't want to use tiers as the final word here as they are fuzzy, but a guild geared through LT, some of the easier stuff in UC PoF and ToT should be able to do UT just fine.

I can agree on Air, but fire, especially with the shoulder revamp, ft2 belt, and those legs you cry about not having make it pretty fucking worth it. Not to mention zombie skin.
 
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Speaking with experience of a guild that used to rape everything available to us,when the Thaz revamp was made, we just didn't bother with Uthaz Air and Fire anymore...

Complete waste of time. There is just nothing invaluable there ( You could argue Cape of Lucid Energy but whatever ) drops to justify how these two wings were changed. Sorry but the lack of guild killing high-tiered target is just not an argument. If Bane wanted, they would go there but they still don't, why ? Reward VS Time

I got geared up when Exodus was in their prime and mostly wearing Thaz gear and not being maxed tomed and yes most of the content was easy but it definitely was not as easy as most people make it sound. Lthaz seems fine but Upper is quite a mess.

lol @ exodus in its prime.
 
Listen I'm gonna get real in this thread and break it down. Getting items that are upgrades is supposed to be challenging - if you think thaz is too hard now for the items that drop there please state which zones/fights are easier which provide equal/better gear (please please someone tackle class armor). Maybe if we name names we can get somewhere.

This isn't a troll, this isn't me calling person/guild whiney bitches. I just think this discussion could benefit from being less nebulous and I want to know where people feel like they can get comparable gear for less effort.
 
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