Untargetable targets... well, almost

hooden

Dalayan Beginner
A few Mondays ago, a couple guildmates and myself went scouting for the evening's raid targets. It's nothing unusual, but what we found is becoming more and more usual. What that is, is a lack of targets. Not a lack of possible targets, but a lack of targets actually being up or available. That particular night, the only formidable mob we found was GOTSS, and this was after exhausting our entire "checklist" of mobs and zones appropriate for our guild.

Over recent raid nights, we have found that this is occurring more and more. We regularly check many zones such as POA, POT, DHK, Misery, EC, and now even OP, among others. What is becoming more and more common is that these targets are down. As quite a few people have noticed, many of these targets are hit by more than just the people progressing the raid scene. Indeed, the very nature of SOD is that highend progression is limited to some degree and what happens is you get quite a mix of people killing the same targets. While DHK is but one target, it provides a good example.

There are some casual guilds (i.e. Aeternus) currently killing DHK because the zone is raid and loot appropriate, by and large. However, there are other guilds who kill DHK who are simply past its tier. I have nothing wrong with that. If people want to hit whatever targets for whatever reason, it is no skin off my back. However, the problem arises because there is a point on SOD, approximately around the middle tiers (e.g. DHK, planes), where higher-end raid guilds still have some reason to hit these weaker targets.

Our problem arises from the fact that we are a casual raid guild, with raiding scheduled twice a week, but we are approaching a tier where casual raiding targets appear to start meeting highend raiding targets. Of course this seems to be a reasonable outcome. After all, SOD doesn't pump out endless expansions negating previous content. It's great.

Nonetheless, the issue still exists where content is being overrun by SOD's growing raid population. When the raids were lowered to 18 people, I seem to recall that raid targets were on a fast respawn. At the time, I remember thinking it was nice because we did see more targets. I am not sure if we all just got used to a faster respawn and accommodated to it, or that the respawns were lengthened again. But if the respawns on some raid targets could be taken down a day or so, I think this would be a step in the right direction.

I am well aware that the new raid zone, The Rust, was released as well, and more content is one plausible solution, but I believe a faster respawn would work quite well and help resolve the issue for at least the time being.
 
PoWater will be out very soon with air-level content, but i'll take a faster respawn into consideration.
 
I just sort of want to agree with what Hooden is saying.

With the 18 man raids, new guilds have popped up all over, and now you have Dandy Gentlemen, Empire, Aeternus, Chaotic Winds and House of Incandenza / Exiled Legion starting to raid. At the uper level, you have Forsaken, Steel, Exodus, Ruin, and slowly Phoenix Rising coming into play. Obivously it's getting hard to find targets up when you have 5 guilds per each tier fighting over content. A decreased spawn time would be tremendous.

edit: fixed ;o
 
TapeinV said:
I just sort of want to agree with what Hooden is saying.

With the 18 man raids, new guilds have popped up all over, and now you have Dandy Gentlemen, Empire, Aeternus, Chaotic Winds and House of Incandenza / Exiled Legion starting to raid. At the uper level, you have Forsaken, Steel, Exodus, Ruin, and slowly Phoenix Rising coming into play. Obivously it's getting hard to find targets up when you have 5 guilds per each tier fighting over content. An increased spawn time would be tremendous.

I think you mean decreased spawn time.
 
The new influx in the NDHK tier raid scene is the reason for the decision to develop PoWater into that tier. Look for it soon =)
 
hooden said:
There are some casual guilds (i.e. Aeternus) currently killing DHK because the zone is raid and loot appropriate, by and large. However, there are other guilds who kill DHK who are simply past its tier.

DHK its a very good target to raid for guilds over that tier because: of his augment, its a relic factory, you can raid there with barely 2 groups, can farm stones for combine.

If u keep tracking zones like Misery-PoA-PoT-EC-PoV-DHK-SE-OP-Sep i cant believe u got nothing to raid....unless u want to raid some specific zone to improve at your tier, u will have lots of targets to hit.

:dance: PoW!!! :dance:
 
Bravengel said:
If u keep tracking zones like Misery-PoA-PoT-EC-PoV-DHK-SE-OP-Sep i cant believe u got nothing to raid....unless u want to raid some specific zone to improve at your tier, u will have lots of targets to hit.

:dance: PoW!!! :dance:

Perhaps we are just extremely lucky, but DG hasn't had any trouble with finding targets up. Matter of fact, the last 3 named we killed were up 2 days in a row before we hit them. *shrug* I, however, wouldn't be against decreasing the respawn rate because... well... that just means more raids for us too! *grin*
 
quoted from wiz in the 2.0 thread : Respawns
For now, multi-day respawns will be cut in half. A different system will possibly be used if competition turns out to still be too harsh. Raid mobs will have their amount of item drops reduced.

(wasn't 2.0 something to to allow people from tier one to go to tier 10 if they were working together (with a smaller guild size then 1.0 used to be, so far the only "thing" that changed was raid size)

(kind of reply to quote) > Competition isn't to harsh.. people just farm over and over, so its not diferent then 1.0, reducing spawn time won't change anything, X guild will just end up doing the same target over and over till they have what they want, move on to next one >.<, Tough about that "different" system yet wiz?
 
Bravengel said:
DHK its a very good target to raid for guilds over that tier because: of his augment, its a relic factory, you can raid there with barely 2 groups, can farm stones for combine.

If u keep tracking zones like Misery-PoA-PoT-EC-PoV-DHK-SE-OP-Sep i cant believe u got nothing to raid....unless u want to raid some specific zone to improve at your tier, u will have lots of targets to hit.

:dance: PoW!!! :dance:

Thats quite a bit to add into that tier that really doesn't belong there. Sep, op, and pov respectively.
 
Hmm, dunno about other guilds. But when stuff like Sep/CoD & Prison mobs are down we start looking for Pot/PoA (Warden/Sultan/Seduc) etc. If that is down and we really really really are bored... then we look for stuff like DHK :p Its kinda easy peasy to clear out, but it keeps us off the street.

I doubt that further and further decreasing of the spawntimes is any good solution tho. It will only mean the bored clear it again i think and then the who problem for the casuals still exists.
 
become more competitive kill stuff in your tier to force guilds ahead of you to move up
 
I know that instanced raiding before has been shot down, but maybe it would be a good idea for some zones (NDhk/PoT/PoA). If there could be a way so that a character could only enter into the instance once every 3 days, it could possibly be a way to help some guilds progress onto higher level content, and at the same time allow the more casual guilds to remain on the same tier without blocking others. Just tossing the idea out there I guess.

Either way, I'm not sure reduced spawn timers would help.

(Also, it might be cool for pick-up raids, since finding stuff up is a crapshoot and I've heard some complaints from the guilds on certain tiers. But, pick-up raids obviously are not high-priority)
 
hooden said:
A few Mondays ago, a couple guildmates and myself went scouting for the evening's raid targets. It's nothing unusual, but what we found is becoming more and more usual. What that is, is a lack of targets. Not a lack of possible targets, but a lack of targets actually being up or available. That particular night, the only formidable mob we found was GOTSS, and this was after exhausting our entire "checklist" of mobs and zones appropriate for our guild.

Over recent raid nights, we have found that this is occurring more and more. We regularly check many zones such as POA, POT, DHK, Misery, EC, and now even OP, among others. What is becoming more and more common is that these targets are down. As quite a few people have noticed, many of these targets are hit by more than just the people progressing the raid scene. Indeed, the very nature of SOD is that highend progression is limited to some degree and what happens is you get quite a mix of people killing the same targets. While DHK is but one target, it provides a good example.

There are some casual guilds (i.e. Aeternus) currently killing DHK because the zone is raid and loot appropriate, by and large. However, there are other guilds who kill DHK who are simply past its tier. I have nothing wrong with that. If people want to hit whatever targets for whatever reason, it is no skin off my back. However, the problem arises because there is a point on SOD, approximately around the middle tiers (e.g. DHK, planes), where higher-end raid guilds still have some reason to hit these weaker targets.

Our problem arises from the fact that we are a casual raid guild, with raiding scheduled twice a week, but we are approaching a tier where casual raiding targets appear to start meeting highend raiding targets. Of course this seems to be a reasonable outcome. After all, SOD doesn't pump out endless expansions negating previous content. It's great.

Nonetheless, the issue still exists where content is being overrun by SOD's growing raid population. When the raids were lowered to 18 people, I seem to recall that raid targets were on a fast respawn. At the time, I remember thinking it was nice because we did see more targets. I am not sure if we all just got used to a faster respawn and accommodated to it, or that the respawns were lengthened again. But if the respawns on some raid targets could be taken down a day or so, I think this would be a step in the right direction.

I am well aware that the new raid zone, The Rust, was released as well, and more content is one plausible solution, but I believe a faster respawn would work quite well and help resolve the issue for at least the time being.

i can name a few reasons why those in the top tiers raid DHK and stuff:

1. Some people still need ornate gems
2. Zirv mask
3. MOTG ruby (for wizards since its a rare drop)
4. Archaic Fragment pieces (one reason Ruin once ina while does OP)
5. More guilds
6. Mirror's BP
7. Taesh Robe

there isn't a zone inbetween that gives better loot than those. Mirror's bp upgrade is Thaz quest bp. Mask from zirv is the Upper thaz mask (maybe perception from IP) but thats still a few tiers above DHK

etc etc etc.
 
What if something along the lines of an even more difficult treasure map was created? At the current time the most difficult raid map is probably less than ndhk tier. The maps could be random in difficulty ranging from NDHK tier to IP tier or perhaps even Upper Thaz tier to draw in more advanced guilds, or you could make 2 types of maps one ranging from NDHK to Sep and the other from CoD to Thaz.

Firstly, the map could be a rare, random drop from trash of raid zones. It could be made nodrop from the start so that they wouldn't be sold for ridiculous prices. The map would be done just as it is now but the Trash could be significantly upgraded in its difficulty and have a max spawn of 3 mobs at a time because it is a rare occurence that you would find more than 3 mobs at a time in your way while heading to a named and tbh if a guild popped more than 3 IP or Thaz level trash mobs they would basically be eaten alive. the waves of mobs would be just like raiding, and working your way to a named only the number of waves would be random. Once the chest would pop a named mob could "rise from the earth" and a raid fight would commense. There would be no need to set up new kinds of zones and whatnot all it would require is 1 or 2 sets of generic earth based trash to fit the lore and around 5 - 10 random earth based nameds of varying difficulty. The loot tables at 5 items a piece would be at 25 - 50 items.

In my opinion this would be a good substitute to lowering respawns. This would ensure that every guild has a target as long as they have a map and they could use these maps any time there is nothing up for them to raid at their tier. Although, this also comes at a price. If you are an upper tier guild and pop a NDHK tier mob then most, if not all, of the gear will rot and if you are a lower tier guild and pop an IP tier mob you will wipe. I do feel that 2 types of maps separating the tiers in half would make the loot rot, or wipe chances a little better and more enjoyable for the players.

I think this idea would be slightly better because a new zone can be done by one guild at a time while any number of guilds could be doing raid maps at the same time and I'm not sure if lowering spawn times would really help decrease the competition for raid mobs.
 
The loot tables at 5 items a piece would be at 25 - 50 items
Do you mean the chest at the end drops 5 items? If then, that's way too high. Imo, it should be kept at 2 because of the "raid on demand" plus that it already adds.
 
Elite Maps that spawn Random raid encounters!......or maps that spawn raid encounters from specific instances :D
Stupid idea but I thought I'd throw it out there.

I sorta like the idea that say.... "You open the map"
"A trembling force tears through the fabric of space and time!"

Relicdroppingmob_01 emerges!

I can see this causing like, terrain exploits eventually (I think) but walls mean crap in AoEs now so.... blah? Z axis?

Doesn't affect me in any way though =/.
 
Last time the spawn rate was lowered, basically you had the same people farming the same things - only this time they could do it twice as fast. To me it didn't appear to solve any problems.

Really, if there's content lacking for the number of guilds in a given tier, more content would be ideal. Otherwise, I would say it really is the responsibility of any guild to be competitive within their own tier.
 
Kelval said:
Do you mean the chest at the end drops 5 items? If then, that's way too high. Imo, it should be kept at 2 because of the "raid on demand" plus that it already adds.

i meant they have 5 items in their table and drop 2 at a time...why would i say "hey lets make them drop all the loots on their table at once" :psyduck:
 
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