Tweaking the 18-man raid limit

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eqjenius

Dalayan Elder
I haven’t logged in in about a month, but I figured I’d see if I could raid in with my crew this evening. The raid was full, of course, which made me remember one of the reasons I haven’t logged in for a while.

In order to maintain a consistent 18-man raid force, a guild needs a roster of at least 20-30 players, if not more, depending on the reliability of various players. Since only 18 toons fit in a raid, this typically leaves a number of guild members sitting out on raid nights wishing and hoping for an eventual raid spot. In my experience, this is one of the major reasons that players in the raid scene will lose interest in logging in.

A while back, a thread bandied about the idea of 24-man raids. Don’t know where that landed, but here’s an idea for improving the raid scene without fully expanding it to 24-toon raids:

1. allow one additional group into raids.
2. only 18 toons are allowed to engage 18-man Nameds. Named are hard-coded to crush the raid if more than 18 engage.
3. additional players can: help on trash kills, help on pre-engage buffing, help on wipe recovery. Additional players gain xp from all mobs killed by the raid and can loot from trash mobs but not from Named.

This would give players the option to join their guild mates on raid nights without requiring a total rework of the raid scene. Wipe recovery would be improved and players could be substituted much more easily if raid members have to leave the raid early - all sticking points against the SoD raid scene.
 
I'm feeling the love, Otcho. If only everyone could enjoy the charming remarks you leave in my forum rep.

Anyway, I basically did quit, which was the whole point. If I missed something that's changed, perhaps someone wiser would care to enlighten?
 
Either the limit is upped to 24 or it's not.

Your suggestion is really awful for a number of obvious reasons. I will chime in and say I'm in favor of 24 man raiding, just because of the options it opens up. I'll also agree to see real success, you need well over 18 dudes so you're not boxing every other raid when the inevitable happens and someone doesn't show up. 18 man raids are very constricting in that sense, as to see true progression in a timely manner you'd preferably need 18 hard dudes who show up night after night. With 24 you can recruit much more, into the low 30's, and while people not showing up will still be an issue, although small, it will become less of one.
 
Your entire post boiled down to : Make raid clears faster for people with more members. Did you really not think this through before you posted?
 
Good thing our guild has a way of enabling players to still benefit from being online during raids even if the raid in question is full.
 
its way harder to find 24 competent button pushers than it is to find 18 which is pretty hard on a server of sod's population and turnaround rate. if your guild raid is full you get to play super nintendo and listen to geeks on vent talking about dragons.
 
If you adjust the Named engage cap to 24 toons, then guilds will adjust their recruiting pool and devs will adjust the difficulty of the mobs. All of the complications presented by 18-toon raids will be replicated, with the added difficulty of needing more people available to tackle the content.

My idea purposed to give excess guild members a means of participating with their friends on raid nights without requiring that all of the game's content be adjusted to match. I don't consider trash clearing the be all/end all of the raid scene, and I see more benefit to players than harm in allowing additional guild members to poke away at it.

Better than playing Super and listening to your geek friends have fun without you until you get bored and spend your raid nights elsewhere, thus requiring your guild mates to recruit replacements who will also get to sit on the sidelines every other raid night.
 
eqjenius said:
If you adjust the Named engage cap to 24 toons, then guilds will adjust their recruiting pool and devs will adjust the difficulty of the mobs. All of the complications presented by 18-toon raids will be replicated, with the added difficulty of needing more people available to tackle the content.

My idea purposed to give excess guild members a means of participating with their friends on raid nights without requiring that all of the game's content be adjusted to match. I don't consider trash clearing the be all/end all of the raid scene, and I see more benefit to players than harm in allowing additional guild members to poke away at it.

Better than playing Super and listening to your geek friends have fun without you until you get bored and spend your raid nights elsewhere, thus requiring your guild mates to recruit replacements who will also get to sit on the sidelines every other raid night.
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To me, all of these problems that you have identified only exist because of the leadership philosophy taken by your officers/guild leader. I don't see that as a valid reason for the staff to go through every single encounter (it isn't as simple as adding flat health values) to accommodate for your guild's leadership shortcomings.

Furthermore, if said accommodations were even made, everyone knows that there would be a multitude of bugs that would have a negative impact on the playerbase as a whole that would vastly outweigh any benefit received from said "fixes" for the 1 or 2 guilds that could employ a 24 man raid.

This was discussed at length some time ago, and was ultimately decided to be a bad idea for several reasons. Let it go.
 
Obscenitor said:
To me, all of these problems that you have identified only exist because of the leadership philosophy taken by your officers/guild leader. I don't see that as a valid reason for the staff to go through every single encounter (it isn't as simple as adding flat health values) to accommodate for your guild's leadership shortcomings.

Furthermore, if said accommodations were even made, everyone knows that there would be a multitude of bugs that would have a negative impact on the playerbase as a whole that would vastly outweigh any benefit received from said "fixes" for the 1 or 2 guilds that could employ a 24 man raid.

This was discussed at length some time ago, and was ultimately decided to be a bad idea for several reasons. Let it go.
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I'm not talking about 24-man raids. Did you even read the block of text you quoted?

Moraelintz said:
If you can normally field a 24 man raid take that group and exp or
Quest while waiting on spots.
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Like most guilds, we generally have between 19 and 23 people available on raid nights. Sometimes less, which means we box in some toons, and sometimes 24+ (although that's pretty rare).

"Do something else" is the usual course of action for those extra 1 to 5 people. I thought an alternative would be nice.
 
Isnt this Guy in CW? Its funny cus someone in CW told me like a week ago that the guild had more or less not raided in 2-3 weeks.

Now they want 24-man raids....
 
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