Tradeskill & Misc. Feedback - Featuring Emzur & Enderi (Ongoing)

iBluNT

Dalayan Elder
This thread will be a compilation of Enderi and I's findings throughout the season on every trade kill in the game. This will cover the trade skill as an entirety, specific materials that may have been hard to obtain, balancing, and suggestions to keep trade skills less of a chore. I'd like to invite anyone to chime in and give their opinions, add any items or topics I may have missed, etc.

I also understand historically, Trade Skills haven't been something that development wants to touch a lot. I'd be very happy and willing to give input and suggestions in any capacity to the Dev team. I've got a decent amount of Dev experience that I'd be willing to help chime in on where applicable.

Anything written in Red is an edit made after my original post.

Overview
Trade skilling as a whole has always been viewed as a grind that people generally want to stay away from. Part of this is due to the effort you need to put into them, the lack of reward for your effort, general lack of economy relating to items being unnecessary in general. The rebalancing of crafted armor did help a lot to make the trade skills feel more rewarding, especially leveling up as fresh characters.
  • First & foremost, not having listsend capabilities was a massive downside to trade skilling in Season. Having to work out logistics of meeting people at specific times, finding bag space, juggling materials from 8 trade skills, etc. was all a very troubling task. It would've been amazing to set up vendors with different armor, etc. as well, and not have to load different mules just to get folks the items they wanted and interrupt anything you're doing. I understand why it wasn't included in Season, but next time it's likely a must.
  • Piggy backing off the first bullet; not being able to buy-back your vendored items sucked. This is partly user error, obviously, but it strayed from the norm of being able to buy back your materials in case you vendored them by accident. Again, I understand why it wasn't included, but next time it'd be a great plus.
  • One thing I'd like to see in the future is being able to auto-combine any item that you can no longer skill-up from. It was a good step in the right direction to introduce it at 250, however it feels really bad having to go back and revisit a specific painful combine that you now need as a sub-combine for another item.
    • Realizing this is especially helpful for trade skills that do not reach 250 skill cap such as Pottery, Baking, Tinkering, Poison Making.
  • On macro-check skills like Fishing and Mining, I'm led to believe that successful passcolors do not grant any type of benefit from passing. It'd be nice to get some validation if these even work.
    • Furthermore, are passcolors still needed? Does anyone monitor this? Seems to just be a clunky way of getting new players in trouble for not watching their screens like hawks.
  • There are a few trade skills without modifiers that, in my opinion, should have one:
    • Alchemy, Brewing, Fletching and Jewelcrafting.
Notable Items
  • Crystalline Blood can only come from Crystal Caverns (yes there is maybe ONE exception from Sorcs, but it's so uncommon it didn't really deserve a mention), and the mobs it does come from have a relatively abysmal drop rate. Seeing a boost from CC mobs, and/or allowing Sorcs Labyrinth mobs to drop this would help greatly.
  • Giant Blood can only come from a few packs of mobs in small quantities (GSM, OSM, Everfrost, Cycgorge) and is needed in massive quantities (hundreds to thousands) for Brewing and Tailoring. It'd provide a big benefit to add this to Stormkeep / Storm's Eye despite the faction restriction, or give alternatives to Brewing and Tailoring. There are a lot of other unused Bloods in the game.
  • Silver Dawnfish can come from fishing in Cauldron of Dawn or Athica. Most zones with large fish pools have a relatively fair and equal fish-rate between the different types. Silver Dawnfish seem to be a very unique outlier, and drop about 5% of the time compared to the other fish in these zone's possible fish pools. Hundreds of these are needed in Brewing, and can take dozens of hours to farm.
  • Blackbane can only come from Vulfweres in Warpstone Caverns Sundered Mountains, or Ratmen in Mistwoods. Both of these locations have a very depressing drop rate, for example about 3-4 Blackbane in a clear of 90 or so Vulfweres. If taking the route of making Pantherskin and other similar items, you're looking at a huge amount of time spent invested in this one item.
  • Tangleweed is another rough one, coming primarily from Siren's Grotto. I believe there's a drop chance in Plane of Water and Kedge Keep but not high enough worth considering a farm location. Seeing another zone added to this loot table, or an alternative in Blue Ointment combines would help this out tremendously.
Alchemy
  • Pretty straight forward, vendor based, trade skill. The rate at which people level seems to out-pace the skill-ups in this category, and most low level potions get outdated very quickly. It'd be nice to have some kind of increased vendor value on potions for situations like this.
  • Biggest gripe towards the end of Alchemy, is the rarity and exclusivity of Crystalline Blood.
    • Vendor-bought materials end at 230 trivial skill, where you're already in the 100 combines per skill-up range. Crystalline Blood is used for 240 and 245 trivial combines, which acts as a link to the 250 and 255 combines which would otherwise have a huge fail rate starting at 230.
    • Crystalline Blood can only come from Crystal Caverns (yes there is maybe ONE exception from Sorcs, but it's so uncommon it didn't really deserve a mention), and the mobs it does come from have a relatively abysmal drop rate. Seeing a boost from CC mobs, and/or allowing Sorcs Labyrinth mobs to drop this would help greatly.
  • I'd love to see an Alchemy mod somewhere down the road.
Baking
  • Not a ton to say about Baking other than the fact that it stops at 85 (to my knowledge), and the stats on the food are nothing to get excited about for the amount of clicks it takes.
  • Confident that if this skill went up to 250, there'd be a great opportunity to introduce some neat consumable items with different stats and effects.
Blacksmithing
  • Blacksmithing, in my opinion, was a very fair trade skill. It's a relatively inexpensive skill to pick up due to most of the materials coming from Mining, and a lot of the crafted items vendor back for a fair amount of Plat so you can make a little profit, or at least make up for your time invested in Mining if you don't consider that as an overhead cost.
  • Most, if not all of the gripe from Blacksmithing plays more into Mining, mentioned below.
  • One area for improvement is reducing the amount of Rock Chunks needed for a Mineral Dust. It takes 60 Rock Chunks to make 1 Mineral Dust, which is just purchasable by a vendor for 13 Plat anyway. It's not even worth doing the current method, which is the most click-heavy combine in the game:
    • 10 Rock Chunks -> 1 Mineral.
    • 6 Minerals -> 1 Mineral Dust.
  • It'd be great to see it reduced down to somewhere like:
    • 4 Rock Chunks -> 1 Mineral.
    • 2 Minerals -> 1 Mineral Dust.
  • This change would give you 7.5 Mineral Dusts per 60 Rock Chunks, as opposed to 1, in many less clicks required.
  • Both Blacksmithing and Tailoring had their lower level crafted armor stats bumped, but not the final combines (Deepmetal, Imp Hide, Shadowsilk). The final products are now worse than their predecessors.
Brewing

  • I believe around 140 is where vendor-bought items stop and farming components begins. This isn't much of a problem as there's a lot of different routes to get higher.
  • Brewing from 230-250 is arguably the worst experience of all trade skills. It definitely starts off great, and gets progressively worse as it goes.
  • There's really only 2 avenues to get to 250, one of which requires a material (Giant Blood) that's both a very grindy farm, and also used in mass quantities in another trade skill (Tailoring). This really leaves you stuck with one main avenue which is to fish 5 different types of fish, in quantities of about 300 fish each.
    • Suggestion for making the fishing portion better can be found below, but feels like a band-aid type remedy.
  • 7 stacks of rum per 1 stack of skillables seems hefty. Maybe reduce Roar rum down to 1 or 2 per combine instead of 3.
  • On this same note, any Brewing recipe from 205+ shouldn't require double of any combination. Almost every possible item requires double the materials which are already extremely difficult to gather for the first combine.
  • I'll elaborate more on this at a later time, as I'm still finishing up.
  • I'd love to see a Brewing modifier or two somewhere down the road to help alleviate some of the issues I've mentioned.
Fishing
  • Fishing wasn't too much of a task. 140-165 is a pretty big grind, mainly due to the only fish you can skill off of are in zones with a large fish pool. For example, in Cauldron of Dawn if you're at 150 skill with modifiers, you're able to catch 6 different fish but can only skill-up on one type of those. Compare this to a zone with only 2 different types of fish, your chances of getting a fish you can skill-up on are exponentially higher.
    • I can respect this for leveling to 250, but afterword it seems like a chore when you're trying to farm specific materials for other things like Brewing.
  • I don't have a clear-cut solution for this yet, but being able to select what type of fish you can catch would be a massive help to Brewing.
    • If even considered viable, this would have to be exclusive to 250+ fishers and would have to exclude maps and any high value fish like Sunfish, Torment Razorfangs, etc.
  • It'd be great if replenishing times could be looked at. Mining nodes take about 30 minutes to replenish, but fishing takes several hours to replenish.
  • Tower of Agony is a good example of the replenishing times being poor. Currently this is just about the only place to skill up on Fishing from 160-230 unless you're pledged Shiritri. If more than one person is occupying that zone it runs out absurdly fast.
    • There needs to be a high-skill fish pool added to at least 2 other zones to accommodate for this.
  • Map drop rate still seems a bit low, but I can understand this and won't touch on it too much.
Fletching
  • I won't get into the nonsense of how Fletching is required to be a Ranger, but just focus on the trade skill in general.
  • Fletching process summarized:
    • Combine a specific combination of a shaft, arrowhead, and feather to create a Bundle.
      • For low level arrows, one Bundle can be clicked and will create a stack of arrows. For higher level arrows, they are not clickable and you must advance to the next steps.
    • Combine ten bundles to create one Large Bundle.
    • Combine five Large Bundles to create a Quiver.
      • For higher level arrows, you must also combine an agent with the five Large Bundles to create a usable Quiver.
  • As of now, the Bundles and Large Bundles do not stack, taking up a massive amount of inventory space with no real reasoning.
  • If Bundles and Large Bundles were stackable, this trade skill would cut headaches in half without changing anything about the trade skill at all. Same amount of clicks, same everything, but takes up a fraction of the inventory space required.
  • The amount of combines per skill-up seem unnecessarily high. I understand it's a mostly vendor-bought skill, but also very expensive for not much reason.
  • Some of the materials required to make Superb Quivers later on are a bit rare, but in general not a massive downside as they're very specific to bane type, which in itself is an issue also.
  • I'd love to see a Fletching modifier or two somewhere down the road.
Jewelcrafting
  • I don't have a lot to say about JC, as it's pretty straight forward. It's a plat-heavy skill, as expected, but has an alternative route to also be able to farm the gems as well.
  • It'd be nice to see the type 3 augments have a vendor value, similar to both Blacksmithing and Tailoring.
    • Both of the skills just mentioned have a vendor value of at LEAST the cost of the vendor-bought material, giving you a nice pay back for your effort. Jewelcrafting augs have zero value to vendor.
  • I'd love to see a Jewelcrafting modifier or two somewhere down the road.
Mining
  • Mining is a chore.
  • Leveling up on Mining is not the issue, as it's made very easy to level up with. The issue really comes down to:
    • Having to be focused on Mining and only Mining to be efficient. With Fishing you can at least create a hotkey and have it run a few times, only to check back to hit it again or hit a passcolor check. With Mining, you're hitting a button every ~4 seconds, repeating thousands of times to get the adequate ore needed for Blacksmithing.
      • Roughly ~15+ stacks of Rock Chunks to 1 stack of Obsidian, Ghostmetal, Warpmetal.
      • Suggestions to fix this could be to automate Mining somehow in a hotkey by not making it a clickable skill but rather an actual /doability, perhaps increasing Mining harvesting time but also adding the possibility of maybe mining a "cluster of ore" which nets you 2-3 ores instead of 1.
    • Node capacity, location, and availability in different zones. I understand there's quite a few zones that haven't been touched in their lifetime, but seeing more zones and more ore deposits would make this enjoyable.
Pottery
  • Straight forward and to the point. Mostly vendor-bought, reasonable prices, and reasonable combine to skill up ratio.
  • It's a shame this ends at 80 (for the most part), but I don't really see much else down the tunnel for Pottery unless it gets deeper into Tinkering.
Tailoring
  • Probably the most farm-intensive trade skill there is. It'd be nice to see some of these items come from a vendor early-on, but I understand why that'd be a touchy subject. In Thurgadin there's a vendor for various meats, it'd be neat to see one for minor Furs/Hides.
  • I'm not sure why, but there are two types of Leather and Cloth/Silk armor. One crafted with double aug slots, and one with a single aug slot dropped by various mobs. It'd be awesome to see the single aug slot versions canned, so that we're able to skill up off the dropped armor as well.
  • There's a few items in Tailoring that are very uncommon and relatively harder to obtain than most other skills.
 
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Enderi2

Dalayan Beginner
I thought it would be kinda neat to have each tradeskill capable of creating a single lore / no drop aug of their respective type.

The aug would be superior to the tradeable versions and limited to 1 per type. Give a little extra character progression for folks that did wanted to max skills.
 

Nwaij

Dalayan Pious Diety
I thought it would be kinda neat to have each tradeskill capable of creating a single lore / no drop aug of their respective type.

The aug would be superior to the tradeable versions and limited to 1 per type. Give a little extra character progression for folks that did wanted to max skills.
I suggested that years ago and was turned down on the basis of "Then minmaxers would feel mandated to do any and all tradeskill!"
 

Rarok

Dalayan Elder
I suggested that years ago and was turned down on the basis of "Then minmaxers would feel mandated to do any and all tradeskill!"
There are so many of these timesinks in the game I don't think it even matters at this point. Since this is a game about ringers, at least in a few years it would give everyone access to every tradeskiller and devalue the tradeskills as a whole. Works for me.
 
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