Tiers 9 through 11 balancing (See post #4 for current status)

Animand

Dalayan Elder
about thazz mini.

We did do the Jaylas insite and it didnt give us nothing more than the normal reporting of res type etc. And there was no emote no db of any type. We tried killing the adds and not killing them and damage remained the same. Anyone else have any other thoughts or input?

Just these two ideas. This sounds befuddling, so these ideas might should be clarified. I'm not doubting you; I just think this is the kind of information that would help figure out this mystery. Set SleuthMode to ON!

Was that a single hit? Was that a round of melee?

Also, you say there was no emote, but are you reasonably sure that none of the emotes were related to having the boss smack your tank like a little girl? Maybe there's a mechanic you're missing because an emote is somehow not being shown, or you're just misunderstanding the emote, or who knows?
 

ynnear

Dalayan Elder
Just these two ideas. This sounds befuddling, so these ideas might should be clarified. I'm not doubting you; I just think this is the kind of information that would help figure out this mystery. Set SleuthMode to ON!



Also, you say there was no emote, but are you reasonably sure that none of the emotes were related to having the boss smack your tank like a little girl? Maybe there's a mechanic you're missing because an emote is somehow not being shown, or you're just misunderstanding the emote, or who knows?

Always a possibility we missed something but in this instance i dont think we have. But we will give it a few more goes and see what we come up with,.
 

Tarutao

Staff Emeritus
Here's what I can say at this point about the damage output of the lt water mini, Lorash`Dal: he hits really, really hard per melee swing, but not an unreasonable amount per round of melee. If he instead hit for only 800 damage but hit thirty times per round, the damage might not *look* like a lot from the vantage point of seeing spammy numbers fly off your chat window, but it'd kill you really fast.

You probably didn't want to hear "working as intended", but it is, and I trust that you'll find a strategy to cope with it that makes it feel like an appropriate gearcheck.
 

Animand

Dalayan Elder
Because it's Eldarian. He's my friend, but he tends to be an awful poster.

Now Taru can delete this post and the previous so as to stay on topic?
 

Tarutao

Staff Emeritus
No, we'll keep them. It is working as intended. Whether the difficulty of the encounter warrants adjustment is something we cannot yet determine. From what I've seen, it's probably really darn close.
 

Zapple

Dalayan Elder
If the water mini hasn't been changed in months he is right though that the damage output is ridiculous. It stomped Jraul and Bango who are 3 tiers above what this encounter is supposed to be.
 

Tarutao

Staff Emeritus
All I can say is that I haven't touched him and that looking around for other raid NPCs for comparison (a bit of a difficult task, actually) led me to the conclusion that he's probably pretty close to where he should be. There might need to be adjustments after we actually get to see it done, but just from trying to compare apples to grapples, it seems like a good first version.
 

cian2

Dalayan Master
these things are hard to really pinpoint, since every npc has a damage and hits per round stat, but it's pretty clear that less hits, higher dmg is actually much more damage - ie. 2000 dmg 1 hit is MUCH more dangerous than 500 dmg 4 hits. dmg reduction, ripostes are one factor, as well as the apparent hidden inherent mechanics of the game. i also think it's kinda a bad way to design mobs, things like failed golem and even CC golems can still insta-kill bango/jraul today, which is fairly absurd. with that info in mind, from what i've seen in this game, i think the water mini does the most melee damage (or rather, most RANDOM insta-kill potential, which is NOT at all a bottleneck of the healers OR the tank - ie. bad design) of any enemy in the entire game. i think marza had a much more elegant way of designing mobs that unleash giant hits at a regular interval (essentially mimicing regular melee via script) without relying so heavily on avoidance & ripostes - refer to the tan golem phase of primeval colossus
 
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Tarutao

Staff Emeritus
That is a very elegant logical progression for which I have no argument, but it does hinge on "from what i've seen". If your assumptions (which are indeed very reasonable assumptions to make based on your limited experience with this mob) were correct, then I don't think your conclusions would be far off.

The primeval colossus example is a bit of an outlier, though. The mechanics of the melee of those NPCs are unique as far as I know.
 

cian2

Dalayan Master
Thanks, it's good to hear that people are reading this thread and getting the information I'm trying to provide. I just hope people agree with the Klikil item changes

i think buffing ratlord items was a wise choice but imo you actually nerfed the rat claw, from a 1024 dot to a 475 DD, with no proc rate change. i'm in favor of changing it from a dot to DD, but i think the proc rate should be increased from 1% to 2%
 

Latten

Dalayan Elder
I agree with eisley on the rawclaw the 1% didnt procc alot so its not like it was MASSIVE dps. On a normal BQ/Citadel/ exp mob that has some hps or raid trash it procced about 1 time / mob.
So either change the procc rate to 2% or change the procc.
 

Tarutao

Staff Emeritus
Really? That was meant to be an overall improvement to the item given the tendency of the DoT not to run its duration. I'm not upping the proc rate; that's just not on the table. That said, if people would prefer the old proc, I'm not against putting it back.

I'd like a couple more opinions on it before I change it again, though... preferably including some from people that are using the item.
 

Animand

Dalayan Elder
Wait, a 4 tick DoT that does 110 initial damage and 256 damage per tick was considered to run so little of its duration (on average) that being replaced by a single 475 DD was considered an improvement? I guess if there's parses or something I'd accept it, but that looks pretty off to me. I'd like to hear from people using this item, too, but I don't see there being that many people using this item to comment, either.
 

Dinadass

Dalayan Pious Diety
1% proc rate on an 11 delay weapon does not proc often enough on average for the DD to be an improvement, you'd need an absurd amount of haste for that to be the case. If the dot lasts until it's second tick that would be better damage than the DD, which means you'd need to proc it more often than every ~9 seconds because of the tick system.
 

cian2

Dalayan Master
Really? That was meant to be an overall improvement to the item given the tendency of the DoT not to run its duration. I'm not upping the proc rate; that's just not on the table. That said, if people would prefer the old proc, I'm not against putting it back.

I'd like a couple more opinions on it before I change it again, though... preferably including some from people that are using the item.

I support changing it back then, the dot is substantially better and was never really a bad proc to begin with. I don't use the item now obviously but I used it for a long time on my ranger.
 

cian2

Dalayan Master
Tao edit: In order to keep this thread on-topic, part or all of this post has been moved to the "Channeling" thread in the Balancing Discussion subforum.
 
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Moraelintz

Dalayan Elder
Tao edit: In order to keep this thread on-topic, part or all of this post has been moved to the "Channeling" thread in the Balancing Discussion subforum.
 

sheer1

Dalayan Elder
Tao edit: In order to keep this thread on-topic, part or all of this post has been moved to the "Channeling" thread in the Balancing Discussion subforum.
 

Waldoff

Administrator
Staff member
Tao edit: In order to keep this thread on-topic, part or all of this post has been moved to the "Channeling" thread in the Balancing Discussion subforum.

Edit: Also, T10 is not a good indicator of that fight.
 
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