The Taunt awareness thread

N

Noktar

Dalayan Beginner
For a copple off days now i have been failing my taunt over 66% of the times. And failing the first taunt i do on a mob at least 90% of the time. I talked to wiz and heard it was just me being REALY unlucky. And that we should have a 55% chance of a succesfull taunt on a lvl 60 mob. Now i have been XPing in Stormkeep the last copple of days and i dont know there exact lvl but i dont believe i should fail as much as i do.

So i asked around and i dont seem to be the only one with the problem. I heard about warriors having the same problem in catacombs, eldenals and DN. Basicly every warrior i asked till now.

At this point if i werent a warrior myself i would prolly take a paladin or shadowknight over a warrior for xp groups, since they have other means of getting agro.

So when i grouped in Stormkeep i always had beric with me (lvl 65 shadowknight) who pulled with the agro spell and i would get agro over beric after a certain period of time wich was almost always after the 3rd taunt i did. The only reason the group worked was because beric can tank as well. when beric left we wipped because i could not get agro over the shaman when he slow pulled.

As far as i know warriors should be the best tanks in game. This because its all they do they cant do anything else like paladins and shadowknights. And right now warriors come 3rd in line IMO.

Even if we had the 55% chance of a succesfull taunt i still think its way to low. if the chance of this getting better is slim to nothing i would suggest to change an aa to increase this chance.

Lets say you did a raid and went against a lvl 70 mob you would have a chance of 22,5% to get a succesfull taunt now i would not want to be the slower or agro puller with a warrior being main tank.
 
I noticed the same thing a few days ago too. At first i thought that i might have been lagging or out of taunt range or both, but after asking in irc i found out that it was a fix. From my experiences, it doesn't seem to be a 55% chance to taunt any mob that i've fought in the last few days, and i'm pretty sure that alost none of them were level 60 or above, since i'd remember a day of gameplay that i died every 20 seconds, so logically i would've had a higher chance of taunting them successfully.

I've had the same problems with slow pulling in Eldenal's and DN, and also had problems regaining agro with taunt after losing it in a number of Cmal groups, even while using the warrior agro style. The idea of an aa or an increase of chance of a successful taunt would help a great deal. Without either of these or the right gear, which won't happen for a lot of people for a while, warriors wont be able to help their group from getting wiped.
 
I just heard paladins and shadowknights have a difrent taunt cap. set at either 200 or 220.

taunting Ki'Fenrath (lvl70) with a paladin would be funny.
negative chance if they didnt catch that
 
Warrior AA - AE taunt: still works 100% of the time. So if need be you can always use AE taunt on a raid pull instead of normal taunt. That doesnt exactly help xp groups. But there is also a mask from the zone Lasanth, that has 15% taunt skill mod on it.

If using slow to pull is so rough -> have the warrior pull with an arrow, and slow at 95%? Warriors do have Resiliance to eat some of the damage.
 
Taunt failing 95% of the time on the first taunt BREAKS THE LAWS OF PROBABILITY.

I suspect it's a large number of warriors who are annoyed with the change and are blowing up the effect in their minds.
 
Taunt failing 95% of the time on the first taunt BREAKS THE LAWS OF PROBABILITY.

I suspect it's a large number of warriors who are annoyed with the change and are blowing up the effect in their minds.
Click to expand...

I am sure i am not blowing anythings up in my mind. But i will log my next copple of days to calc my exact succes %.

And even if its like 50% it still puts warriors down to the number 3 spot for tanking in xp groups. cause a paladin or shadowknight have a smaller chance of wiping the group when they loose agro.
 
MOnk

I would have to aggree with these warriors in my last couple of groups the Warrior has had a huge problem keeping aggro. Something seems different to me.
 
I don't have any problem keeping aggro, the problem is to gain aggro. It's the first taunt you do, on a slow/aggro/whatever pull, that first taunt NEED to stick. And I've need to taunt sometimes 3-4 times to gain first aggro. ie to gain the aggro from the puller.
 
I hope warriors realize that taunt doesn't actually add aggro, like a paladin or SK spell. It puts you to the top of the hate list + 1 aggro when it succeeds.
Just making sure everyone is clear on that.
 
I'm not sure how different things are here, but on Live warriors have pretty much the same problem. Certain debuffs that are usually cast at the beginning of a fight are notorious for getting casters killed before the warrior can take aggro.

I may be wrong about this, or it might function differently here, but I was always under the impression that the difference between normal Taunt and AE Taunt is that normal taunt only adds a certain number to your aggro, whereas AE taunt puts you on top of the hate list (if you succeed) no matter where you were previously at on the list (because of this, there was a certain tactic involving a ranger and AE taunt to "secure" a warrior's aggro on raid encounters...)

If the above is true, then it is entirely possible that your taunt IS succeeding, but the amount of aggro you gain from it isn't enough to bring you to the top of the hate list. For example, if slow, or tash, or whatever, generates 1000 points on a mob's hate list, and taunt only generates 500, or even 750, then the first successful taunt would make no visible difference. It would take at least two successes, and then factoring in a 50% success rate it may take 3-4 attempts to finally grab aggro.

For example:
Mob inc... shaman slows, gains 1000 aggro.
Warrior taunts, succeeds, gains 750 aggro.
No visible difference, mob is still beating on shaman.
Warrior taunts, fails, still at 750.
Warrior taunts a third time, succeeds, gains 750, bringing him to 1500 which should take aggro away from the shaman.

So in that scenario, taunt succeeded 2 out of three times, a 66% success rate. Even then, it took 3 attempts to finally take aggro. If one were going by the assumption that taunt raises you to the top of the hate list on success, then this would only appear to be a 33% success rate, when in fact it is 66% and functioning properly, it just has to compete with the high initial aggre that the debuffer generated.

Anyway, the above numbers are entirely hypothetical, and I have never played a warrior (although I did play a ranger for a number of years), and this has always been my understanding of how taunt works, mostly through careful observation over many different mob and group scenarios, at least on Live. It may not work this way at all, or maybe just not on WR, but it sure would explain the discrepencies being brought up.

--Quinthius
 
Although I wasn't the one doing the taunting, I was botting Khalid in ToT a few nights ago -- Alazif was tanking.

I offtanked a mob, beat on it for a while, divine stun, blind, etc etc etc. It took alazif less time to get aggro with his procs and DPS than it did to taunt it.

Granted this is an isolated case. I just think that it should be more reliable.
 
Quinthius, Nuralia is quite correct here. Once i got into my 50s I could steal aggro even from Aratar (much to my amusement) briefly when my TAUNT landed. He of course stole it right back...

I found it useful when a mob aggroed to a caster. I could hit TAUNT and (hopefully) steal aggro, and beings the caster is thinking only of their draining HP bar, they wouldn't be casting anything else, so i would hold until MT took it back.
 
Fjodor said:
I don't have any problem keeping aggro, the problem is to gain aggro. It's the first taunt you do, on a slow/aggro/whatever pull, that first taunt NEED to stick. And I've need to taunt sometimes 3-4 times to gain first aggro. ie to gain the aggro from the puller.
Click to expand...

Unless the puller is an idiot and is pulling by tashing the mob 10 times in a row, or your slower is an idiot and instantly slows at 100%, it's not an issue.
 
Unless the puller is an idiot and is pulling by tashing the mob 10 times in a row, or your slower is an idiot and instantly slows at 100%, it's not an issue.
Click to expand...

Wiz, can you confirm that normal taunt (not AE) actually moves you to the top of the hate list instead of just increasing your aggro by a certain amount? Because, if that is the case, then wouldn't the above statement be completely irrelevant? If taunt bumps you to the highest aggro+1, then I would imagine you could tash 10 times, er even a hundred times, or slow at 100% or whatever else, and it wouldn't matter as long as the warrior got a successful taunt in, pushing him to the top of the list... (not trying to be argumentive, just curious as to which way it really is :) )
 
Inc
Shaman slows at 100%
Warrior taunts
Warrior Gains agro
Shaman slows again
Shaman gets beat up
Warrior waits for taunt to refresh
Shaman slows a third time....
....

I think that was the point wiz was making Quinthius...thus the 'idiot' bit.

Eredhel

Edit: And btw, taunt mashers were disproven long ago...avoid it like the plague.
 
Quinthius said:
Unless the puller is an idiot and is pulling by tashing the mob 10 times in a row, or your slower is an idiot and instantly slows at 100%, it's not an issue.
Click to expand...

Wiz, can you confirm that normal taunt (not AE) actually moves you to the top of the hate list instead of just increasing your aggro by a certain amount? Because, if that is the case, then wouldn't the above statement be completely irrelevant? If taunt bumps you to the highest aggro+1, then I would imagine you could tash 10 times, er even a hundred times, or slow at 100% or whatever else, and it wouldn't matter as long as the warrior got a successful taunt in, pushing him to the top of the list... (not trying to be argumentive, just curious as to which way it really is :) )
Click to expand...

Top +1, but since it isn't a guaranteed success, it's a bad idea to risk your soft shaman by throwing big-aggro spells before the warrior has a bit of aggro.

That's just how it works.
 
try waiting with slow on your typical raid mob. that would be fun to watch.

Unless the puller is an idiot and is pulling by tashing the mob 10 times in a row, or your slower is an idiot and instantly slows at 100%, it's not an issue.
Click to expand...

How much agro is gained with the pull is not an issue really. if you pull with 10000 agro taunt should still get you agro over that 10000. So you cant call a puller an idiot because he has agro when he pulls.
 
5 seconds of melee on a raid mob by MT X gives enough aggro for me to cast AA slow and not worry about death.
 
Hey all, just got to read this, i hope everyone notices this last post, i was thinking, im not sure if you all played on live, but i think warriors should get the Below skills, its a skill where u swear at your enemy to piss him off and gain aggro, it re pops every 30 secs or so, and is used to pull and get a little aggro over time, it mitigates, also it uses sta when u use it, so it wouldnt be this garunteed infinite aggro, but would help wars a little bit, with there lack of spells and high aggro weapons here, tho there are a few, but not for all the tanks on WR who arent in ruin/PR


think about it wiz, i played war for 65 levels and about 130aa, i know its not alot, but i tihnk its a great great skill, PS if they have the Below line here all ready and i typed this for nothing, please feel free to make the next 10 posts all rants about me being a fool =)
 
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