The SoD economy

LoxoscelesReclusa said:
crazy-fly ball-half baked-charm breakdown-idea coming to right field..
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Charms aren't the problem. Their only function is to remove plat from the economy, which they appear to be doing nicely. Most of the complaints in this thread have centered around how little plat is in real circulation, which may well be a problem in and of itself. Whether that's because the higher-cost charms require longer saving periods, thus tieing up more plat in bank accounts where it doesn't move around and effectively is not part of the economy, or it's because plat drops haven't kept pace with item drops (with new zones like FR and HHK, item quality went up, but since the plat coming in stayed the same, that's bound to have an effect) or any number of a dozen other possibiltiies, including "there isn't any problem at all". However, the charms themselves are more or less fine :)
 
I have to say i feel the same way as the topic starter, about cash farming. Heres my stance:

1.) I just recently started playing again with my monk and got him to 63 since christmas. Its a hard world for a monk, where you get shafted for carrying too much weight, but i have to say: even if i had been able to take all the items that dropped from 1-63 with me, and sold them all, i wouldnt even have a full equipment by now. The only reason I have some stuff (and u will agree my equipment still sucks) is because i have spent a long time on farming Tradeskill items to sell to other players (rougly 4 days of my total 10 days playtime) plus a friend of mine gave me 4 or 5 items when i started. I am still using borrowed stuff from numerous friends at this point, and i havent even begun THINKING about an upgrade to a charm. As it is right now i will have to spend another 2-3 months straight farming to even get a decent equipment for a 65. While that is ok for me, i got time at my hands, i see the problem for other people, who are not sooo enthusiastic as i am (and dont have as much free time)

2.) a few friends of mine just started playing this game about 2 months ago, i made an alt to level with them. We are level 32 now, and each of us has gotten about 300 plat from drops. Now take about roughly 80pp for spells on each spellcaster, we come to a total of 220 plat.Is it only me or is there something wrong here? for 220 plat u cant even afford crap items for each of ur inventory slot. If it wasnt for me outfitting them they wouldnt even be able to tank lightblues ;)

Charms cost alot of money, anyway, this was never the point of the Topic. They (and their prices) were designed as a bonus, and to take money out of the community, or better: give the high levels a worthwhile item to save on, apart from outfitting numerous alts.

IMHO, something is wrong here in general. I am seeing loads of people farming the very few "cash" spots that are there left in this game, and its usually level 65s saving up for a charm. Thats about 80% of the server population farming for their charm. Then theres another 5% of the server population farming for their 60+ spells.

It has become very hard to make any money at all. If it goes on like this, me and my RL friends will have to explock at level 40 to farm cash to even afford our new spells, let alone buy a single upgrade. Thank god i got my high level to twink us. But is this the way its intended? This game is slowly turning into a farmfest, and i have to say i really think thats a bad development.

thats another 7% of the server population (levels 40-60) who need to FARM to even get their low level spells, and to get some decent mid level gear.

Combined with the numbers from before, we got a total of 92 % of the server population that is being forced to farm. IMHO, this is the biggest problem. It can only be adressed by doing a big change to the lootcode/undoing some of the recent changes. I think the changes that were made to drops in general, and item prices, are a total overkill. There needs to be more money/cash item drops, sure this will lead to high levels getting their charms faster. But voila, then the money is out of the game, which was the purpose of the charm prices. The target of the drop rate increases was to stop high levels from farming? If it was i have to say mission has failed. It has just made the problem even bigger, and given the shaft to all players that are not even thinking about farming for a charm yet.

my english sucks and i hate myself for it, hope i could get my point through to you.

thanks for listening
Lance
 
I can make up bogus figures just as well as you can.
Monance said:
Thats about 80% of the server population farming for their charm. Then theres another 5% of the server population farming for their 60+ spells.

thats another 7% of the server population (levels 40-60) who need to FARM to even get their low level spells, and to get some decent mid level gear.

Combined with the numbers from before, we got a total of 92 % of the server population that is being forced to farm.
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guyvertoo said:
I can make up bogus figures just as well as you can.
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How about you tell more about what's on your mind? Because what you said could be directed at most of the last 10 posters.
 
Scuffing off the rough edges and all.
What i THINK is being said:
Lower levels getting shafted by lame cash drop rates.
People NOT going for charms having trouble getting money to upgrade/spell buy.
People going for charms will have money taken out of economy anyways.

Every change, fix or nerf will have a back lash. I think the slowed economy was an effect Wiz desired by nerfing farming spots. I'm probably wrong but since it doesn't seem to be on the list of priorities, its probably going to be left as is now. The exception being the balancing of items to their tiers thats coming up.
 
If the reason all the pre uber 65 + lots of AA spots cash dropping spots got nerfed was the mining of them by uber 65 + lots of AA people, why not give them an alternate income VS farming?

Make no drop items sellable to merchants for moderate amounts of plat(and unable to resell of course). 65+ then head for those, each raid is more worthwhile, and maybe, just maybe the pre ubers can get a little access to some plat. But I am suggesting that conditional on making plat drop a bit better for the pre65's.

Unless of course the slowed down spending/plat making is intentional though. If it is intended to be like this, then that is just the way it is.
 
i farm slightly on my main and i get a little ammount (75-300) depending on drops and what mobs drop for cash ect.
seeing how my main is a warrior farming is slightly more irritating in the fact i cant heal myself mid battle so a bad pull =s death but thats what makes it interesting and not boring.
in anycase since im raid geared it makes things more manageable and since the guild bought me my juggo with some help from myself (not much cause i dont farm like mad) i tend to farm and buy any good deal i see on twink loot for my numerous alts. the only problem i have seen on my behalf (not saying its the same for everyone) is overpricing on some items.
in many cases its understandable such as if its very rarely sold or in high demand but with how money influx has been most people cant buy them thus people lower the price on said items until they get a bite. thats how ive been auctioning for some time now if i ever get anything worth selling.

that is just a view on how i see the economy
 
I dont particularly mind the Bind on Equip type deal but there is one major flaw with just implementing it. This is that the intake of money to o the economy will still be low so people still weant have any money to spend. On top of that since players cant sell their gear not even for a little money, they lower levels will be even more poor. Thus the economy will be stunted even more. Also, people are less likely to upgrade their gear as often uness there is a substantial benefit to the new gear. Lastly, this will mean that all the super rare high dollar pieces that dont drop anymore with be out of the game forever for all practical purposes. The only people really helped by this are the people with 65++ high AAs...the "little guys" will be even worse off thn they currently are. If the BoE was implemented and the cash/gem drop rates and gem vendor prices were back to where they were a year ago, I think the sstem might work, but just making thing BoE will screw the economy even further. There is no One thing that can fix the economy, it is a combination of changes that will make the system work effectively.
 
Guys, this thread is pretty badly muddled at this point. I'll bring it up in staff chat and see if we can't get a Balance Discussion thread up in this piece--fresh start, etc.
 
Thinkmeats said:
Guys, this thread is pretty badly muddled at this point. I'll bring it up in staff chat and see if we can't get a Balance Discussion thread up in this piece--fresh start, etc.
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Yeah its kind of hopelessly intertwined with a few other ones at this point
 
Thinkmeats said:
Guys, this thread is pretty badly muddled at this point. I'll bring it up in staff chat and see if we can't get a Balance Discussion thread up in this piece--fresh start, etc.
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There are so many factors that it will become muddled there too. I would suggest brainstorming and then listing the specific factors you want discussion on in the Balance Discussion thread to help keep it clear.

But thank you TM, it is good to know the players are heard here. One of the biggest benefits to not having the company run the game.

*edit spelling*
 
Brainstorming start:

Problems with the economy: (from what I've heard and seen)

Over saturation of items

Nerfed money

Lack of new players coming to the server

-------------------------------------(there may be more)----------------------------------

Any others?

Once we have a good list, then lets all hit the points and figure out the best
solution for each problem.

:D
 
Over-saturation of items and no good source of money flowing into (not circulating around) the economy are the two big problems I see.
 
Over saturation
Excessive number of tradeskillers (it is good XP after all)
Drop rate nerfs
plat rate nerfs
spawn rate nerfs
general examination of plat drops (disparity example, kaladim ghosts drop a gold less than 1p..specters drop as much as 6-7p and are similar levels)
Fix to help prevent/lower excessive 65 farming of lowbie zones (besides removing/lowering the spawns/drops which then hurts the lowbies)
 
Danku said:
general examination of plat drops (disparity example, kaladim ghosts drop a gold less than 1p..specters drop as much as 6-7p and are similar levels)
Fix to help prevent/lower excessive 65 farming of lowbie zones (besides removing/lowering the spawns/drops which then hurts the lowbies)
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If plat drops scaled up properly then you wouldn't see many 65's farming the lowbie zones. If mob A takes 2x as long to kill as mob B, but gives 1.75X as much pp AND exp, I wouldn't bother with B at all.
 
Slippers1 said:
You probably would if you were bored and couldn't solo mob a, but you could solo mob b.
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Brandar was talking about plat drops, in other words: non named. Leaving out raidzones, you can kill any given trash mob in any given zone at 65 with some AA and semi-decent raidgear, and there's really no way to change that.
 
Another thought, any raid items and items from planes, etc (65 level mobs etc) really shouln't be tradable. Ancient girdle of rocks for example. All they do is make anything below them worth far less and remove a step in the game progression.
 
Danku said:
Over saturation

Drop rate nerfs

spawn rate nerfs
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one of these things is not like the other ones...

i find it hard to comprehend complaining about over saturation AND drop/spawn rate nerfs
 
guyvertoo said:
one of these things is not like the other ones...

i find it hard to comprehend complaining about over saturation AND drop/spawn rate nerfs
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Geez, when he said drop rate nerfs I'm hoping he's talking about vendor trash like gems, otherwise, I'll be forced to agree with G2 and that would just ruin my day :( Either way, spawn rate nerfs should be helpful toward slowing oversaturation.

Yep, it's ruined.
 
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