The Problem(?) of PUGs
- Thread starter Slaariel
- Start date
Exactly! Half the fun of being in CW is beating Exo to targets. And you Exo members, don't tell me you didn't love beating us into Abyss last week by 30 seconds (we'd have been in earlier if it weren't for untimely server lag).
Competition and interaction are the ONLY reasons that ANYONE plays Shards of Dalaya. No one would grind away if there weren't other players to measure against. No one would log in and shoot the shit in ooc or work on tradeskills if other players weren't around to interact with.
Pug regulations removes competition from the game and removes opportunities for player interaction. Such regulations are bad for the game.
I've been avoiding posting my feelings about this, but I think that there should be no distinction between pugs and guilds and that in general the rules constraining raiding should be relaxed greatly.
Here is my philosophy about this.
tl dr games about fun and not rules
Here is my philosophy about this.
tl dr games about fun and not rules
You are right that this doesn't solve any problems but to claim that the retarded 2/3 rule was not broken is a little silly as well.
I personally do not care AT ALL about "flags" or having some arbitrary # of people who had to have killed some random dragon to get access to some random zone. People should be allowed to kill what the game allows them to, not what the staff enforces through some set of rules.
Content should be gated through difficulty honestly. If someone (even if its a single person) can lead the way and you can kill it I see no problem.
Slaariel
*The Only Real Life Girl Dev*
Yeah I'm feelin this.
The way I see it, if you are tired of people claiming items and losing /randoms you will join a guild that does not do these things.
If you are fine with this or whatever, you can PUG stuff until you keel over.
And if DEVS want gated content they can damn well design and implement the gate themselves. At any rate it should not be a rule, but a design choice.
OK WELL unless anyone has anything else to add I am for not caring about PUGs one way or the other.
The way I see it, if you are tired of people claiming items and losing /randoms you will join a guild that does not do these things.
If you are fine with this or whatever, you can PUG stuff until you keel over.
And if DEVS want gated content they can damn well design and implement the gate themselves. At any rate it should not be a rule, but a design choice.
OK WELL unless anyone has anything else to add I am for not caring about PUGs one way or the other.
Mythryn
Dalayan Master
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Basically marza said it.
If you can beat the mob you should be allowed to do so.
Guilds are organized, everyone knows each other, loot systems make are consistent and usually somewhat fair, you also have a force that logs on together, rather than having to ooc for people you don't know.
If you can beat the mob you should be allowed to do so.
Guilds are organized, everyone knows each other, loot systems make are consistent and usually somewhat fair, you also have a force that logs on together, rather than having to ooc for people you don't know.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Another thing that needs to be clarified:
Is it a legitimate claim of a raid zone to just kill trash?
There are places where it is easy to take 6-12 people and just slowly clear trash to block competing guilds from progressing (and sometimes there is even worthwhile rewards from trash).
Is it a legitimate claim of a raid zone to just kill trash?
There are places where it is easy to take 6-12 people and just slowly clear trash to block competing guilds from progressing (and sometimes there is even worthwhile rewards from trash).
Nwaij
Dalayan Pious Diety
Under the current claiming rules, it is legitimate.
Abelfaec
Dalayan Adventurer
Pulling off something said earlier I like the idea of Tmaps for guilds and it's very true. It's easy to horde tmaps and take your own friends/guild on them. Maybe a little more diversity in them? Maybe some tmaps in Ikisith zones? Maybe something similar if we feel this is a need that needs to be catered too. Not sure if it is though.
Nwaij
Dalayan Pious Diety
Wait, are you really telling me here that there should be no limitations on what is puggable unless the content itself limits it?!?
Why did I even BOTHER to kill Prime Enchanter then? I'll just call my next guildraid a PuG and see what Tur'rujik has to offer fore me! Sounds 100% ok to me after reading this post.
syduck: Yes I'm trolling, but really, this is a terrible idea!
Mythryn
Dalayan Master
Prove it.
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
Wait, are you really telling me here that there should be no limitations on what is puggable unless the content itself limits it?!?
Why did I even BOTHER to kill Prime Enchanter then? I'll just call my next guildraid a PuG and see what Tur'rujik has to offer fore me! Sounds 100% ok to me after reading this post.
The answer to your question is "lots of death".
Wait, are you really telling me here that there should be no limitations on what is puggable unless the content itself limits it?!?
Why did I even BOTHER to kill Prime Enchanter then? I'll just call my next guildraid a PuG and see what Tur'rujik has to offer fore me! Sounds 100% ok to me after reading this post.
If you want to take a 'PuG' there and wipe for 10 hours trying to learn strats to the fights then have at it. I'm sure there are other things that are more worth your time, though. And I wonder if your PuG force would be as determined to stay in a place where they're continually dying to content that they're not geared/tomed for when there's loot to be had in Spires.
Salarus
Dalayan Master
Let's see 4 hour spawn times accross the board then, or instanced zones please. That way everyone can kill whatever they want/whenever they want!
EDIT: before some dim wit cries foul - the only difference between a rule (no pugs etc) and something coded (ToT ele's, spawn timers etc) in the raid game, is one is in code, one is something you arn't supposed to do - they are both trying to achieve an end result one way or another. I'm sure if there was an easy code to check the 2/3rds rule when it existed for every zone it would have been in, but assuming there wasn't, so hence, the rule. So yes, in this game they are pretty much the same thing!
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Can't this just take care of itself?
I don't think everything has to be tinkered with by the devs, it makes the game in to a nanny state. I think it's nice when game worlds act like real life, and in real life, the best generally rise to the top naturally. I think this game could and should just be like that. If people can just put together a raid of random people and do well, then more power to them...
If a guild of organised people can't do better than a rag tag pug, then they don't deserve to get any further. A good guild should organise things better and should therefore end up going further than pugs can get. That's how it's always worked surely? Recently the big guilds like PR, Exo and TU were the ones on top and pugs were nowhere. It's only because those guilds imploded that things are different now, but I don't think that's a problem. Give it time and guilds will form again and one will rise to the top.
I think the only thing staff should focus on, is keeping the game's population healthy. All of this natural balance stuff relies on fresh blood and plenty of players. Without that, you end up with the current situation which seems (to my outsiders perspective) to be a few uber people who refuse to leave their small guilds. So you have a few FWF people, a few Exo people a few TU people etc.. and all bits and pieces of guilds. They are not big and strong enough so the pug's are starting to catch up. But with enough new people, it will take care of itself naturally. People will always want to end up in one big well organised guild.
I think the content needs to be difficult enough too. When I last was part of the high tier raid scene, it was all about strats. My guild struggled to learn the strats and fights like The Well and Generals etc.. they were really hard fights and we had to learn how to handle them. In other words, knowledge is power, and knowledge is best contained, organised and disseminated by a guild, rather than a bunch of PUG'ers who are just there for the phat loots.
So in conclusion, have some really hard content in the higher tiers, and have a healthy population, and this will all sort itself out. That's my opinion.
Abelfaec
Dalayan Adventurer
I don't know this guy, and even though i feel this problem is already addressed and potentially on the road to resolve, i would like to say this logic is sound.