The Platinum/Opus Problem

beebo1969

Dalayan Beginner
I know this probably a programmers nightmare, but here's a suggestion to promote social grouping:
My whacky idea: would be to no longer need book/opus drops at all.
As you alternative, you could gain tome purchase credits TPC (or some way better name)
i.e. actively killing monsters would eventually = a tome purchase.
You could use the NPCs in Erimal to work out how to distribute these.
The exp rate could be close to the purchase rate. Complete stamina 1, you've earned enough to purchase stamina 2
Kill in EF or Windstone, you gain exp to purchase those unique tomes.
If flagging for TPC is a good idea, then it could be quest-based, mob-kill based, (i.e. kill CW - might flag you for stat tome purchases), combination of these or other ideas?
More TPCcould be awarded for quests that require 6-man help or even more:
Help kill mobs for murk / refuge / the vah, etc = more TPC

The whole point would be to promote social grouping/raiding:
  • Have to be on hate list - no leechers (maybe a leeching penalty?)
  • 6 / 12 / 18 bonus - full group or raid.
  • Individual bonus vs boxing could gain more TPC
    • IP based - but can be vpn faked
    • Somehow flag known box owners - no idea if this is possible
    • Some unknown (to-me) way of tracking this
  • Possibly other indicators that i can not think of
This would take the extra opus chances need away from keeping groups small.
The plat reasons would remain, but if you didn't have to purchase tomes, you may be willing to group more and retain players.
 
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Nebi

Dalayan Pious Diety
I know this probably a programmers nightmare, but here's a suggestion to promote social grouping:
My whacky idea: would be to no longer need book/opus drops at all.
As you alternative, you could gain tome purchase credits TPC (or some way better name)
i.e. actively killing monsters would eventually = a tome purchase.
You could use the NPCs in Erimal to work out how to distribute these.
The exp rate could be close to the purchase rate. Complete stamina 1, you've earned enough to purchase stamina 2
Kill in EF or Windstone, you gain exp to purchase those unique tomes.
If flagging for TPC is a good idea, then it could be quest-based, mob-kill based, (i.e. kill CW - might flag you for stat tome purchases), combination of these or other ideas?
More TPCcould be awarded for quests that require 6-man help or even more:
Help kill mobs for murk / refuge / the vah, etc = more TPC

The whole point would be to promote social grouping/raiding:
  • Have to be on hate list - no leechers (maybe a leeching penalty?)
  • 6 / 12 / 18 bonus - full group or raid.
  • Individual bonus vs boxing could gain more TPC
    • IP based - but can be vpn faked
    • Somehow flag known box owners - no idea if this is possible
    • Some unknown (to-me) way of tracking this
  • Possibly other indicators that i can not think of
This would take the extra opus chances need away from keeping groups small.
The plat reasons would remain, but if you didn't have to purchase tomes, you may be willing to group more and retain players.

replace time credits with time dollars and you got yourself a deal.
 

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
shamelessly resurrecting this thread - with more people playing SoD than ever and seeing tons of people coming back and being LFG the realization that inviting these people to play with me will just slow my progress and be a liability in my group (through no fault of their own) is just disappointing. once again asking that some sort of incentive be given to playing with other people. my own guildmates dont even want to group with each other half the time because we'll have to compete amongst ourselves for highly coveted opus drops.

edit: more random thoughts i had in discord - also would be neat if the game had some kind of reason to exp for characters that have max or near max opus.
whether it be expable items, some kind of exp -> fame conversion, books that require massive exp to fill but do basically nothing (1000 aa of exp for +1 stat) etc

even though he was notorious for just leeching all the time, glorax had 90 tomes completed like 8 years ago. if people had a reason to care about playing their main character that doesnt need plat / opus, you'd see more exp groups happening (and consequently more pug groups or returning dudes getting dragged along just cause)
 
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cornelweezy

Dalayan Elder
why can't there just be a rare drop bonus the more people are in the group? seems to make it easier on everybody. If a power box wants to scrub in four toons to capitalize on the bonus, fine, more exp being spread around. What's the harm?
 

Kedrin

Dalayan Pious Diety
why can't there just be a rare drop bonus the more people are in the group? seems to make it easier on everybody. If a power box wants to scrub in four toons to capitalize on the bonus, fine, more exp being spread around. What's the harm?

Let's not go around using logic.
 

Ezie3205

Dalayan Elder
why can't there just be a rare drop bonus the more people are in the group? seems to make it easier on everybody. If a power box wants to scrub in four toons to capitalize on the bonus, fine, more exp being spread around. What's the harm?

Probably because intended use is almost never applied use. People would likely just offer leech for the bonus or you'd see money groups go from 2 2boxers to 3.

I do not think there are a lot of things we can do at this point that don't ultimately alter the type of game this is. Its about the grind and if you reduce too much of the grind you risk killing the longevity of the game. If you don't lower it enough you risk alienating new players who find it intimating or insurmountable and retain less of them.

Things I think might help:
1. Make all named mobs rust coded, make them spawn slightly more often in general or a moderate increase if spawned via code.
2. Make charm credits drop from all zones, scaling with difficulty of zone. 1000, 2500, 5000, 10000. 10000 still being fairly rare in the highest zones but 1000 being more common.
3. Increase the amount of xp or chance at tomes/opus drops with more players in the group.
4. Make opus tradeable to reduce the number of opus people need to farm tokens for.

#1 will work, I think, because killing faster would potentially yield more money but then you have to be killing in an area where you can't keep the respawn down. #2-4 will have draw backs that become more apparent after 2 or 3 months.
 

Kedrin

Dalayan Pious Diety
If only we could just apply the bonus to mobs based off the number of characters on its hate list. Too bad, you're right, there is nothing we can do. We should just give up trying to improve the game.

They should definitely unnerf citadel. The amount of names that spawn in that zone doing a 3-4 hours group can definitely be discouraging.
 

AngryCow

Dalayan Elder
I agree with Ezie that making *more names rust coded would work well. There's a few mobs probably not suitable for rust coding. I agree with Kedrin on buffing Citadel. Citadel requires strats and generally seems to be intended to be the hardest of the three current Ikkisith dungeons, but is arguably the least rewarding. A lot of this is due to power scaling. 6-8 years ago groups couldn't pull an entire Kaesora wing in a single pull. The mob density in places like Kaesora and First Ruins made it so when people could pull those zones en masse that they reward scaled out of their original intended rate of reward. Citadel however has been left out of this curve and now feels a bit lackluster by comparison. I'm not sure what method would be best to make citadel great again, but it could definitely use a little love.
 

Kedrin

Dalayan Pious Diety
It would be really cool to see a new EXP zone that isn't the basic three that are the only zones worth going to.

1) Kaesora
2) First Ruins
3) Citadel (only #3 because there is nothing else)

They have been the only zones for so long now. It's just sad that Kaesora seems like one of the only good zones to go to when you want EXP. It seems like it was designed to be an entry level zone in the expansion.

LOIO fort isn't terrible.

I just really want to see a zone that is back to the basics: pull one to a few mobs at a time because they are difficult. This would mean they would have to give very large EXP and PP number and it seems like the red men are terrified of large numbers.

I'm not super into the meta that is currently pull as many mobs as possible and everyone needs AE or they are worthless.
 

Otcho

Dalayan Pious Diety
as a side note can we have emberflow nameds spawn normally instead of sit on track for 2 hours. I don't actually know how this mechanic works but its frustrating. I will fully accept that I am just low intelligence but it always seems to be a source of disappointment when you're in the zone and think something is up but it never actually is.
 

cornelweezy

Dalayan Elder
People would likely just offer leech for the bonus or you'd see money groups go from 2 2boxers to 3.

You typed this like it's a bad thing. Why is this bad if the goal is to get more characters in game and exp'd? If Broheim wants to farm another supreme or better books off the backs of leechers who presumably wouldn't be leeching if they weren't going to play at some point, why is that bad again?

edit: full disclosure, i would log in two boxes to leech 24/7 if people want to exp my toons so their toons get better drops, who wouldn't? Why is this a bad thing?
 

Ezie3205

Dalayan Elder
You typed this like it's a bad thing. Why is this bad if the goal is to get more characters in game and exp'd? If Broheim wants to farm another supreme or better books off the backs of leechers who presumably wouldn't be leeching if they weren't going to play at some point, why is that bad again?

edit: full disclosure, i would log in two boxes to leech 24/7 if people want to exp my toons so their toons get better drops, who wouldn't? Why is this a bad thing?

Yeah, thats the kind of thing that will prevent that as a fix. If they added Kedrin's idea of people having to be on the hate list that might work a little better. The Devs wont implement a system where people are getting extra rewards for something that is already a pretty common thing on the server and provides no additional risk or difficulty.

Leeching is great if you don't have time to play but need xp. That again is more of a symptom of a larger problem that I think afflicts the server. Encouraging the 2nd most boring way to progress in this game isn't really going to bring in more players or encourage current players to stick around. It won't really solve the issue of people striking out on their own instead of making groups to get cash/opus because its more effective.

Coming up with ideas that help active grouping would be the best option but again, we run into a different issue of the server of: You'll probably only know about/be invited to/benefit from those groups if you're in a guild.
 

defixio

Dalayan Elder
I frequently see people openly /ooc invited to go do bounties. It would be interesting if there was a bounty like thing that gave (everyone on the hate list) a flag for completion, similiar to bounties, which could be turned in for opi /tome tokens, or charm credits.

if needed give it some sort of limiting basis like being drop dependent, trade skill consumable depndant, or daily like bounty.
 

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
as long as opus / tomes are the bottleneck to exp AND there are no major exp grinds outside of those things (think massive expable items), then anti-social gameplay will remain optimal.
 

Kedrin

Dalayan Pious Diety
I'm not a huge fan of EXP items. I would love to see new AA's or Books however. Just large exp for small rewards.

+1 skills that doesn't stack with items:
1H Blunt
1H Slashing
Piercing
2H Blunt
2H Slashing
Hand to Hand
Archery
Backstab
Dodge
Parry
Riposte

Make them 5 ranks of each and cost around 100 or so AA's each. Or make them cost higher and reduce the number of different skills, combine 1HB and 2HB, or combine all 1 handers... you get the idea.

Add an AA / Book that increases defense stats when the characters main hand doesn't have a ratio.

Add an AA / Book that adds innate worn Bane that doesn't stack with Items. That's like 30 books right there since there is so many different types of body types in the game. Make them cap at 50-75% the power as current best in game or something.
 
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Bonk84

Dalayan Elder
There are also 6 classes with tomes still not implimented, and insidious elements does nothing for a necro so may as well make it 7. Could also expand out pet tomes to rank II or add in a few glyph-like ones that add innate procs, caster pet spell upgrades, pet proc upgrades, or melee abilities.
 
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