The New Rogue additions.. Picklock/Traps

[WazeekWazoo]

First off, it's great that all the classes skills are getting close to being put in. However, you guys went way overboard with the rogue stuff. By adding our abilities of pick lock/traps.. Not only is it a huge annoyance to us, but it is basically pissing the whole server off.. at our expense. There are traps everywhere! Running through warrens I set off at least 5.. I've set off about 6 or 7 in Mielechs.. About 3 or 4 in First Ruins.. There's even one in Erimal. This is getting ridiculous. What was the point of having so many traps? It doesn't really make anything more difficult (except for breaking our sneak/hide and promptly getting us killed), it's basically just an annoyance to all the players. As for the skill in general, even EQ live realized it was a bad idea. If a zone DID have traps, they were off to the side or avoidable. I remember on EQlive you had to be pretty damn close to the trap in order to even sense it, often times causing rogues to get to close and set it off anyways... With the 6 or 7 second delay, and the slow skill ups, it could take days to max it out. Then, I have to find a trap, and take days to max out disarm traps.

Now for pick lock. By the time these came in, I was very low on gm trainer points. Due to sense traps/disarm traps/tradeskills, I couldn't afford to throw 70 points into pick lock.. So, I put my last 5 points in, and set off to do it the normal way. I picked the doors in erudin to roughly 30 some.. Went to Warrens, got to 50's... Figured I should goto unrest now.. Too difficult.. Maybe erudin bank.. Too difficult.. From this point I searched around for hours, and even asked in ooc if anyone has seen any other locked doors. So.. Now I'm stuck at 58 Pick Lock. Timesink arguement behind.. How about how the locked doors affect everyone else... In unrest, the door takes (Im told) about a 100 skill. In order for a lvl 30 group to exp down there (which is what it's intended for im sure) they need a rogue. How many lvl 30 rogues have 100 pick lock skill, when I cant even find any places to raise mine past 50's. So, that group has to search around, and waste time finding a key (if there is one), to finally get in and exp. Nice little roadblock for mid level exping.

The reason I went to train picklock is because Khalid was going for his epic part in sebilis. And wouldn't you guess it? A locked door! With no key to be found anywhere. Being a high level zone, I'm sure it takes a maxed skill to open it. But, no normal players know how to get maxed skill. It's sad that the ONLY thing keeping Khalid from getting his epic.. Is a locked door. As if the epic wasn't hard enough after the ToT necklaces changed to Ghan+ drops only, now we throw another kink in the mix.

The traps wouldn't be so bad if they were used effectively. Like on a raid area, or something. But putting them in lvl 10 newbie exp zones, and regular exp zones is a bit much.

The locked doors wouldn't be bad if it were easier to raise the skill. We don't have a ton of active rogues on this server.

-Official Ruin Disclaimer- : This is not a "Gotw Conspiracy Omgz!" post, please don't turn it that way. I brought this up because it's been discussed in many different exp groups, and people have come to me expressing the same concerns/complaints.

 

[irme_]

Not only is it a huge annoyance to us, but it is basically pissing the whole server off.. at our expense.

Not to sound mean - but - speak for yourself.

There are traps everywhere! Running through warrens I set off at least 5.. I've set off about 6 or 7 in Mielechs.. About 3 or 4 in First Ruins.. There's even one in Erimal. This is getting ridiculous. What was the point of having so many traps?

Did it ever occur to you that these zones are not safe, and are not soposed to be safe. Traps are another danger that adds another use to the Rogue.

It doesn't really make anything more difficult (except for breaking our sneak/hide and promptly getting us killed)

Answer to your own question. Plus if you try to run from a mob and set of a snare trap. well there is some more difficulty for ya.

I remember on EQlive you had to be pretty damn close to the trap in order to even sense it, often times causing rogues to get to close and set it off anyways... With the 6 or 7 second delay, and the slow skill ups, it could take days to max it out. Then, I have to find a trap, and take days to max out disarm traps.

There doesn't even have to be a trap in the zone to train your Sence or Disarm skills. just click the button and eventually it will go up.
try maping it to one of your keyboard movement keys.

Now for pick lock. By the time these came in, I was very low on gm trainer points. Due to sense traps/disarm traps/tradeskills, I couldn't afford to throw 70 points into pick lock.. So, I put my last 5 points in, and set off to do it the normal way. I picked the doors in erudin to roughly 30 some.. Went to Warrens, got to 50's... Figured I should goto unrest now.. Too difficult.. Maybe erudin bank.. Too difficult.. From this point I searched around for hours, and even asked in ooc if anyone has seen any other locked doors. So.. Now I'm stuck at 58 Pick Lock.

You can up your skill to max on a door with a dificulty of 1, you dont need a higher difficulty to get the skill higher - altho and this is just speculation - i have noticed that when you use a higher level door the skill goes up a bit faster.


im not flaming you or anything - but if you made a Rogue you should like to play a rogue for ALL of its class abilities. not just DPS and Backstab.

 

[WazeekWazoo]

Not to sound mean - but - speak for yourself.

As I stated at the bottom of the page. People have come to me, and I've seen many people complain about these traps. Now.. pretend you have gotten a character over level 30... You would be traveling these zones very frequently. Running through hundreds of green mobs. If you want to run to many exp camps at higher levels, you have to run through the newbie zones. In doing so, you set off at least 5 or 6 traps.. In some cases, up to 10. THAT is an annoyance. Having a trap spawn a bunch of lvl 10's, you have to stop and kill real fast. Or getting snared, etc.

Did it ever occur to you that these zones are not safe, and are not soposed to be safe. Traps are another danger that adds another use to the Rogue.

Um, Yes it did occur to me.. How? Maybe the 50+ KOS mobs that occupy the zones? Could that be an indication? The danger is adds is unnecesary and getting redundant. If you played a rogue on live, you have to be within 3 or 4 steps from the trap in order to sense it. How is the rogue supposed to know exactly where the trap is within 3 steps? Usually... He doesn't, and sets the trap off anyways. So how useful is the rogue in that situation?

Answer to your own question. Plus if you try to run from a mob and set of a snare trap. well there is some more difficulty for ya.

Before you started playing, we had a server meeting. A BIG issue was low level people quitting. It was determined that possibly it was too hard to level/group, and would discourage people. These traps severely effect the lower level people, thus making it harder for them. This will also discourage lower level people. It's annoying to alot of people, but I know if I were a newbie, and died to traps repeatedly.. I'd get extremely discouraged.

As for sneak/hide.. A lot of the new zones were added and made sneak/hide useless. Every mob sees us. Now, the zones we COULD sneak in, have traps that break our sneak/hide. So, the traps, although adding a new skill, is a hinderance on our other skills.

There doesn't even have to be a trap in the zone to train your Sence or Disarm skills. just click the button and eventually it will go up.
try maping it to one of your keyboard movement keys.

Thank you very much for the tutorial. I've only been playing rogue since well before Kunark. And.. You are wrong. Yes, you don't need to be near a trap for sense traps skill to go up. But you do have to first SENSE a trap, before you can DISARM a trap. You can't skill up on disarm by not disarming or attempting to now can you?

You can up your skill to max on a door with a dificulty of 1, you dont need a higher difficulty to get the skill higher - altho and this is just speculation - i have noticed that when you use a higher level door the skill goes up a bit faster.

Honestly, I don't remember. I had my pick lock maxed before kunark came out, and all I remember was that I sat in befallen forever. Its been what? 4 or 5 years since I did it. But.. I think your way wrong. In erudin basement, I picked the cell doors. They would fail about 1 in 4 or 5. And the skills went up super fast. My skill jumped from 5 to about 32. I then picked it roughly 40 or 50 times without 1 skill increase. Never failing once. Im pretty sure it would have increased at least once. So... I goto Warrens.. Tada, skill ups very fast. Less than 5 min.. over 20 skill increases.. I keep clicking again about 40 to 50 times, never failing to see if it goes up.. It doesn't. Conclusion : Your wrong.

 

[mwh]

I can only say I think that the lockpicking and traps has gone overboard also. I can understand making them useful, but why make them so prevalent? Rogues already do excellent damage, no one turns down a rogue because they arent useful in a group. So all this does is add something annoying to a group. By annoying I mean that it adds only a negative element to things, since it was added AFTERWARDS to zones. All it did was make things harder, without benefiting anyone. On EQlive I heard the argument that the traps and locked doors were in some zones to counterbalance the good loot and/or xp in certain zones. However, here these zones were already "balanced" I would assume, and then the traps were added afterwards.

I can understand adding locked doors to epic things, and raid things. Okay, besides rogues doing the most melee dps, lets make them required for some things, it makes some sense that maybe you need rogues to get past certain doors in highlvl zones. I just totally dont get how many of these things are in the lowerlvl zones. Why add a 100 lockpick door to a lowbie zone? Its extremely hard to find ANY groups at lowlvls here, and now for some areas you need a specific class? I certainly dont see enough benefit from it to counteract making lowbie xping harder, albeit maybe by only a small amount.

edit : this on top of no one being able to find a set of doors to train on, ive been asking around, and everyone that has a decent skill all just dumped a bargeload of skill points in it, but I assume in the end people will find the "door progression" to be able to do it. Newbie rogues wont have that luxury to be able to know what doors to do.

 

[Kaguya]

with such a low server population:
should max out bard sense and picklock too =P
or wipe those useless skills (yes useless there is no such thing as immersion with a trap that is static and goes off every x seconds, grow up)

i vote option 2!!!

 

[irme_]

First off - i am not flaming you - you could show some manners and do me the same favor. I did not assume anything about you, or how you play the game, or how long.

As I stated at the bottom of the page. People have come to me, and I've seen many people complain about these traps.

I see your point, and i understand that it bothers you and others - but to go extreme and say that all rogues hate it because it annoys everybody on the server, is not accurate - and useless exageration.

Now.. pretend you have gotten a character over level 30...

I don't see where this comes in. you assume that i have never played EQ before, and i am just guessing these things?

Anyway, i have played EQLive for a while around 4+ years, and i played a Rogue the whole time, and yes - he made it over lvl 30

You would be traveling these zones very frequently. Running through hundreds of green mobs. If you want to run to many exp camps at higher levels, you have to run through the newbie zones. In doing so, you set off at least 5 or 6 traps.. In some cases, up to 10. THAT is an annoyance. Having a trap spawn a bunch of lvl 10's, you have to stop and kill real fast. Or getting snared, etc.

Every trap i have seen on WR so far - and i will admit its not that many - are all avoidable, you just have to be carefull. most the time if you are that high you should resist the trap anyway, and if its a spawn trap, shouldnt be to hard to kill them off, but i understand how it can get annoying.

Um, Yes it did occur to me.. How? Maybe the 50+ KOS mobs that occupy the zones? Could that be an indication?

Again with the flaming.. why must you get sarcastic?

The danger is adds is unnecesary and getting redundant.

I Disagree

If you played a rogue on live, you have to be within 3 or 4 steps from the trap in order to sense it.

Actually - if you were within any distance at all - like if it was within your maybe 50% clip plane - if you detect a trap it will flip you around in that direction. then you have to take it easy on your way up. because you do have to be within 3-4 steps to disarm it.

Um, Yes it did occur to me.. How? Maybe the 50+ KOS mobs that occupy the zones? Could that be an indication? The danger is adds is unnecesary and getting redundant. If you played a rogue on live, you have to be within 3 or 4 steps from the trap in order to sense it. How is the rogue supposed to know exactly where the trap is within 3 steps? Usually... He doesn't, and sets the trap off anyways. So how useful is the rogue in that situation?

I can see your point here, forgive my ignorance.

As for sneak/hide.. A lot of the new zones were added and made sneak/hide useless. Every mob sees us. Now, the zones we COULD sneak in, have traps that break our sneak/hide. So, the traps, although adding a new skill, is a hinderance on our other skills.

I was also unaware of the uslessness of H/S - that makes me sad.

Thank you very much for the tutorial. I've only been playing rogue since well before Kunark. And.. You are wrong. Yes, you don't need to be near a trap for sense traps skill to go up. But you do have to first SENSE a trap, before you can DISARM a trap. You can't skill up on disarm by not disarming or attempting to now can you?

Again with the sarcasam...
Anyway, In order to disarm a trap, yes you must sence it - but you dont have to sence a trap in order to attempt to disarm nothign - and even though you fail, you can still get skill ups - otherwise i would have never gotten max dissarm or sence because i wouldnt want to spend that much time in a trapped zone.

Honestly, I don't remember. I had my pick lock maxed before kunark came out, and all I remember was that I sat in befallen forever. Its been what? 4 or 5 years since I did it. But.. I think your way wrong. In erudin basement, I picked the cell doors. They would fail about 1 in 4 or 5. And the skills went up super fast. My skill jumped from 5 to about 32. I then picked it roughly 40 or 50 times without 1 skill increase. Never failing once. Im pretty sure it would have increased at least once. So... I goto Warrens.. Tada, skill ups very fast. Less than 5 min.. over 20 skill increases.. I keep clicking again about 40 to 50 times, never failing to see if it goes up.. It doesn't. Conclusion : Your wrong.

Now you assume that i am wrong - unless you sit at one door for 30min and dont get a single skill up, or wiz comes on and tells us that you can only get a certain skill level before a door goes trivial - you are not right either.


Thank you for taking the time to read this, and i will say this again - this post was not typed out of frustration, just defense of my point. I did not flame you - please dont flame me.

-Irme

 

[muurian]

Anyway, In order to disarm a trap, yes you must sence it - but you dont have to sence a trap in order to attempt to disarm nothign - and even though you fail, you can still get skill ups - otherwise i would have never gotten max dissarm or sence because i wouldnt want to spend that much time in a trapped zone.

This is my favorite part.

Irme, I understand the angle you are trying to provide, but you are without two major parts :

a) WR is not Live, and live experience only nets you points when it comes to gameplay mechanics, not content.

b) You are combating the wrong aspects. I dont think it is assumed that rogues have to sit and click at a door for 30 minutes to get a couple skill points into Pick Locks. Wazeek is pointing out some of the odds and ends of the three skills that dont seem tied up very well.

 

[irme_]

You are combating the wrong aspects. I dont think it is assumed that rogues have to sit and click at a door for 30 minutes to get a couple skill points into Pick Locks. Wazeek is pointing out some of the odds and ends of the three skills that dont seem tied up very well.

Im not saying that it will take that long, im just saying it may take that to find out if there is a trivial level on a door.

And yes i understand completely that things are different on WR and have understood that from the start. I stated my experiances from live, and so did Wazeek.

I am not saying that i know all, nor have i said i know all, just my experiances thus far.

 

[zarcath]

I believe the reason for the current number of traps was to provide rogues a progression to raise their sense/disarm skill. If we had not provided enough traps, the complaint would be opposite (not enough places to raise your skill).

One of us will evaluate the current number of locked doors and see if an increase is required.

-Z

 

[Dujek]

I'm responsible for the traps, you can direct your questions towards me.

First off, why are there so many traps? Well, I have said and always will say that there is absolutely no goddamned point in a trap that sets off 100% of the time in the same place. It's about as effective as an ambush that's clearly signposted in advance. There are around ten traps in Eldenals, and around ten in Mielech, yes... however, only two of the traps in Eldenal's are geared up to be triggered 100% of the time, the others are at 10%, which means that, on average, you should only see one or two traps per visit.

In mielech, there are around four 100% traps and they're ALL on the ramp leading up to Mielech himself. I doubt anybody's going up there without a raid, and any raid heading to Mielech should have at least one rogue. Either way, they're not going to prevent people from getting there, and they're not going to kill anyone.

The trap in Erimal casts sicken on you. That's 8 points of damage and a 2pt DoT over 20 ticks. That's a total of 48 damage. Oh god no.

On top of all this, not one of the traps is fatal. They won't kill you. They won't spawn Tarhyl on you and they won't stun you for five minutes in the middle of a pull. Their mainly inconveniences, and tend to be resisted quite frequently.

In saying that, yes, perhaps I went a bit overboard with them, but they were just implemented and I didn't know what to expect or what reaction they would get. Seems like they've gotten a bad reaction, so I'll wipe the list and start over again. You have a choice in this matter, however, as I will present to you some options and you can pick the one you like best:

a) a tiny amount of traps that are completely random and will kill you or your group instantly.
b) traps that block your way to named mobs or safe camps, that kill you instantly.
c) traps that are randomly placed and spawn mobs on top you of all the time
d) traps that aren't randomly placed but will spawn incredibly difficult mobs on you all the time.
e) no traps at all in most dungeons, but outrageously deadly traps in very high end zones that require 250 skill to disarm
f) a certain amount of random traps that aren't difficult to disarm, and don't kill you
g) a new definition of the word "trap" changed to mean "A joyful occurance upon triggering which will bless you with aegolism and spawn teddy bears for you to frolic with."

You see, none of the traps are crippling. None of them are deadly. Not one of them will make you suffer unduly. Not one of them is unfair (you can get AROUND the warrens snare by turning right and going around instead of continuing straight).

I admit that the alarm in Shroudisle was a bit of a mistake, and its aggro radius was a little too large. Fine, I'll take the damned snare out of warrens if you really cannot spend three extra seconds avoiding it. Sure, I'll take the traps out of Mielech, since it's almost unthinkable to have a dungeon with TRAPS (what was I thinking!?!?!). I'll take out all the traps that you want me to take out, just name them.

What I won't do, however, is make traps conveniently avoidable. I'm sorry, but that just completely defeats the purpose of them. I'll re-think my approach, read over what's said here, and make a new set and see how that works out over a month. They are still, however, going to appear when you're exping. They're still going to trigger while you're running recklessly through a zone. Having a rogue that can detect them is still going to make life a little easier. I'm really sorry, but I just cannot conceed to making "friendly" traps.


------------------

And because I just had to reply to this:

As I stated at the bottom of the page. People have come to me, and I've seen many people complain about these traps. Now.. pretend you have gotten a character over level 30... You would be traveling these zones very frequently. Running through hundreds of green mobs. If you want to run to many exp camps at higher levels, you have to run through the newbie zones. In doing so, you set off at least 5 or 6 traps.. In some cases, up to 10. THAT is an annoyance. Having a trap spawn a bunch of lvl 10's, you have to stop and kill real fast. Or getting snared, etc.

This is a gross exhaggeration. My friend, unless you were travelling to Elendels by way of Shroudisle -> Firstruins -> Warrens -> Mielech -> Akheva -> Elendals, there's no way in hell you're going to set off more than two traps at the most travelling to another zone.

As for this:

As for sneak/hide.. A lot of the new zones were added and made sneak/hide useless. Every mob sees us. Now, the zones we COULD sneak in, have traps that break our sneak/hide. So, the traps, although adding a new skill, is a hinderance on our other skills.

I know what you mean and, in retrospect, I should have been more considerate towards that. I'll try to make sure that there are no traps that will cause a rogue to die because of hide/sneak dropping, for the most part (not sarcasm). As for zones where mobs can see you hide/sneaking, there's a reason for this, and it's not spite.

-------------------

I wasn't in charge of locks. That was Wiz's doing.

 

[WazeekWazoo]

First off, Irme.. I don't want to continue a quote war. Muurian described it perfectly. We both were going off topic...

As for the skill training.. I conceded that maybe you were right (it has been years since I have worked these skills, so my memory is foggy)... So, I started to constantly have Sense/Disarm going randomly where no traps were to be found. Disarm gave the same old.. "you are not close enough to any traps to disarm" or something of the sort. I did that 75 times, and never recieved a skill upgrade. However, my sense trap did go up about 6 or 7 times. Which leads me to believe (like I originally stated) that you must be at a trap and disarm it or attempt to in order to get skill ups...

For the pick lock. I went back to the city, to the lvl 1 doors. I picked them for roughly 20 minutes straight. Not one skill increase, at 58 skill. Which also leads me to believe my original statement about those skill increases.


Traps in general are fine. Just not too many in the exp areas. I think one or two in exp areas of a zone is the limit. It's at the point now, that people KNOW they are going to set off at least 1 or 2 traps in some of these zones. Having 4 or 5 in Warrens is a little cruel on the lowbies. Feel free to put them near named single group spawns, just not every single one.

The traps in shrouded isle are a joke. As if that zone needed to be any harder than it is.. The zone itself is one big trap with the wall aggro...

I ran from FirstRuins to Mielechs.. I set off 1(ramp to hole) in Erimal, 3 in Warrens (one by bats heading to king, one after king that spawned a kobold, and another one under all the bats before trapper - i think) heading to Bancak, and then 2 in Mielechs heading to the shrooms (after tunnel dropoff, and after door past 2nd zone out) in the caves - If I went too far on the bridge, I would have spawned a mud golem trap and promptly died. Thats 6 traps total on my trip - not counting the ones I set off in FR. Could I have been THAT unlucky?

I haven't exlpored Eldenals that much, so there are only 2 of the 10 I know about, so I cant report on any of those.

There were two traps in First Ruins that took out my sneak hide. I can't remember the first one.. But the 2nd was on the way down to Arch Mage.

I like the idea of having the traps near boss mobs. I think it should be expected there would be traps near some of the raid mobs. Which is why I didn't complain about the 4 I set off in 20 seconds of running to check if Mielech was up. Having traps in those less traveled areas put the rogues back in the scouting business of the old PoH days. Only here we are on sense and disarm scout missions.

I would like to see a few of them removed from the highly traveled areas, and normal/casual exp camp areas. But also, it would be nice to place a few more traps in strange spots out of the way.. Like the traps in the skele bones in Dragon Necropolis from live, and the beetle ones (which were actually fun). Places people dont run over constantly, but places people shouldn't be roaming around in.


About the sneak/hide visible in zones. That was discussed a while back, and thats not the issue. I was simply using the traps as an example of further taking away from freely scoutable zones.


For the locked doors.. I'm stuck. I searched everywhere for locked doors, polled the ooc if anyone has seen any, and I can't find any that raise my skill. Unrest/Erudin Bank/Eldenals are too difficult, and Thurgadin is too easy. Warrens is too easy, as well as the city office basement. So if anyone knows of any other locked doors they have run into please let me know. Everyone I've talked to over 50 have used skill points to boost to 70 and start on Erudin Bank, so no help there.

 

[Foonie]

I like g :roll:



Traps are annoying as hell, from what I have experienced. I don't know how many zones have traps, due to my lack of playing, but I know that when I have playd I have encountered them a lot. They weren't harming me, but annoying me a lot. Personally, I think that the way the traps work now is pretty good, and they should just be cut down a little.

 

[Wiz]

As for sneak/hide.. A lot of the new zones were added and made sneak/hide useless. Every mob sees us. Now, the zones we COULD sneak in, have traps that break our sneak/hide. So, the traps, although adding a new skill, is a hinderance on our other skills.

This about all mobs seeing sneak/hide is utter bullshit, Wazeek. When will you stop toting off lies to support a point? There's about ten mobs in the game that see hide.

 

[Jamethiel]

My 2 cents on traps and locked doors:

Traps are good if they increase your immersion. Give traps a reason for being there and have them make sense. Why is the trap there? What's it purpose? A hallway to a treasure room of a tomb makes sense to be trapped. A hallway to the dining area of a castle doesn't. Keep in mind that traps are pretty much one trick ponies. Once you encounter them the fun factor is pretty much over.

I like the traps on the front door area of the Mansion on Shrouded island. It makes you feel like the undead are protecting their house. A fun surprise and you can always avoid the traps by going through the back door.

I sort of like the trap/alarm right before the doorway to the Kobold King in the Warrens. It makes sense for an alarm to sound and an ambush to happen for lower levels. The part I dislike is it's smack in the middle of a main thoroughfare for high levels going to Mielech (I think). Some of these high levels hit the trap and then just keep on going and will train the kobolds to the lower level area as they just dont want to be bothered with stopping and killing green kobolds. I would like this trap a lot more of it wasn't in a main travel way.

I dislike the Snare trap in the bat area of the warrens. Its' through a main travel way and even though the kobolds are all green to me, I still got snared. Plain annoying. Why is this trap here? Won't the bats and the kobolds (not the most intelligent) be setting it off themselves constantly?

Some of the best traps are just done with design. That fake floors that drop you down a pit, the slippery slope that sends you sliding down into a pit of goblins, the fake wall, niche, or pillar that hides a creature from your eyes. Mobs with knockback spells in combination with lava pits or sky islands...... :lol:

Much like traps, locked doors are again good if they increase your immersion. Again, who locked the door and why? I've ran into the locked doors in Erudin and Fungus Grove so far. I'm curious on what's behind them. I have no idea currently as bard picklock isn't trainable. There should be something behind these doors. I will be disappointed if there's nothing. For Fungus Grove, I think it would be fun to get it open and find <a terrified banker> who has locked his door because the undead and mutants have taken over the rest of the city.

The problem with locked doors (and especially this server with its low population and thus low rogue count) is that you don't want to make content unaccesabile. Putting a wizard staff drop behind a locked door would be uncool. Putting rogue quest npc's or a rogue dagger drop behind a locked door would be great. You could also hide bankers/merchants behind locked dungeon doors which would give the rogues something to pick without really penalizing everyone else.

Another use for locked doors would be to bypass content. If a group or raid had a rogue they might be able to open a locked door and take a different route and avoid a couple of rooms of fighting on their way to their ultimate destination. If you have a rogue handy you benefit, but if you don't have a rogue there's still would be a way to get there.

 

[Yanbik]

On top of all this, not one of the traps is fatal. They won't kill you..

That snare trap got me killed in warrens one time! H8!!!!

 

[Liam]

Wazeek sure likes to whine about rogues.

 

[sp4mm]

I was also unaware of the uslessness of H/S - that makes me sad.

Hide/sneak is not useless, infact it's more powerful here than on EQLive with the shroud of stealth PoP AA. I'd be suprised if you run into a mob that sees through it before hitting lvl 60.

And now that I think about it, it's rather odd that a lvl 20 rogue could hide/sneak past most everything... One idea might be to cap rogue hide similarly to warrior taunt on EQlive, where it only worked on equal and lower level mobs untill you hit 60 (or 65, in WR's case) and then it would work on [your level+5].

Ps. I never leveled a warrior on EQlive so my memory may be wrong, but the idea still stands.

 

[popbox]

Wazeek sure likes to whine about rogues.

I'm just seriously tired of hearing this, just because someone disagrees and doesn't like a change, it's automatically called a whine. You want player feedback, you what to know what ppl like and don't like. But if everytime someone posts it's just called a whine, then eventually ppl are just going to stop.

As per the subject, I was a rogue for years on live, I didn't like traps/pick lock then and I don't like it now. I feel it's one of those unneeded things that VI put in that seems to be more of an annoyance more than anything (like food/water).

 

[Dujek]

I'll cut down on the number of traps, and re-arrange the ones that were there.

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I dislike the Snare trap in the bat area of the warrens. Its' through a main travel way and even though the kobolds are all green to me, I still got snared. Plain annoying. Why is this trap here? Won't the bats and the kobolds (not the most intelligent) be setting it off themselves constantly?

No kobolds patrol through here. They patrol around the other side, which is why the trap is there. Also, bats don't walk on the ground, how would they set it off?

 

[Jamethiel]

*laughs* I see your point about bats