The King's head Must Roll!!

[Notpit]

Wow. Do you realize that you are trying to castigate me and rushing to agree with Tao over the same basic issue? And I just said that it conflicts with my playing style. He goes so far as to call it huge mistakes.

 

[Cyzaine]

More guilds die in the 1-4 range than 5+. This isn't new due to quests or unique to this game. New guilds starting out with new players have a harder time than established guilds with established players, and people prefer to get things handed to them than earn it (hence guild jumping to a higher tier). If we were to remove the vah quest, relic hunter quest, deity quests, etc it wouldn't change anything regarding low tier guilds moving up. 90% of them would still implode.

I have no comment at all on the kings head.

 

[metvayne1]

there's no use arguing over it. I can think of far greater examples that "steals loots from newbs" (polore was not mentioned iirc). My feeling is if you scout the mob and get the forces available to do so before someone else, who can dispute your right to the mob. Albeit it takes less people at higher tiers, but that's just the way it is. It's not like all of tiers 1-6 are being locked down. Many out of guild lower tier people hitch rides on endeavors for quest loot, so not everyone is a greedy punk. the game isn't going to be changed because a handful feel oppressed and complain, rather than go and work on their characters in other fashions (through alternative raid mobs, 6 man content, and quests)

 

[savannah]

I had a head on 4 different toons (my alt was camped at his feet for all you wanting to blame MQ)...i know revkah killed king 30 times trying to get a plate bpo..he ran out of alts and was dragging guiuld alts to keep the head from rottin...

moral of the story is...you might get burned a time or two by other people getting to it first...but if you want it bad enuff theres no reason you cant have it (ive seen people sit there as soon as body guards spawn and wait 12 hours (hi serillis!)

 

[Goldfolk]

I had a head on 4 different toons (my alt was camped at his feet for all you wanting to blame MQ)...i know revkah killed king 30 times trying to get a plate bpo..he ran out of alts and was dragging guiuld alts to keep the head from rottin...

moral of the story is...you might get burned a time or two by other people getting to it first...but if you want it bad enuff theres no reason you cant have it (ive seen people sit there as soon as body guards spawn and wait 12 hours (hi serillis!)

This is my last ever post you will be glad to know because most people here are either trolling or just plain stupid.

How can Noobs compete on a mob like this with you when they need to get organised into an 18 man raid to do what you can do with 6. In effect you have confirmed exactly what people have been saying.

Same goes with PoLore quests that means half the mobs are sniped by 6 man groups.

We aren't talking about handing things on a plate to people, we are just saying they don't need a large percentage of low tier mobs being sniped so that somebody's 4th alt can get a shiny new toy.

Some people do have a sense of fair play but others have a very clear message, we want you to train up your toons to 65:50 or so and buy all our overpriced shit so we can get our alts their 1.2M charms but then just delete your toons cos we have no time to let you develop as it's not part of our plan.

Unfortunately this latter group dominate the forums and influence a lot of policy.

 

[vistachiri]

Wow. Do you realize that you are trying to castigate me and rushing to agree with Tao over the same basic issue? And I just said that it conflicts with my playing style. He goes so far as to call it huge mistakes.

I follow my own agenda. The end result of our opinions is similar. We both wish to see it moved. The similarity ends there in this particular instance. You wish to see it moved because you feel depriving on tier people of loot is bad. I wish to see it moved simply because it makes little sense to have one side be far easier than the other. This makes getting the other aug more difficult in a number of ways. In this particular instance I do not care about depriving people of loot, because you can get far superior loot farming at a low tier for a few hours, if that. A much better option in the long run really, as you spend hours on both, yet achieve more with the droppables. Also the fact that it is one mob. I do not support the instancing ideas here, nor do I think a change would magically fix things (things like everyone and their mother killing giants for example). Eventually things will balance out if one is done, but it's not a magic pill. I also do not hold any illusions that placing the head on dergelak, or glib is any different. You will still be killing a raid mob, that drops nodrop loot, and depriving people on tier of the aforementioned loot.

In the latter case of relic hunters etc, I'd tend to agree on the mid tiers. This is because very often you need gear from these places to progress. It is better than most, if not all things that you can buy. Which as one can see, is not the case with the former situation with the exception of stormbreaker plate (which actually I've never seen drop once, and I have killed that thing so many times its down to a science). Relic hunters is also quite a different situation, as one is very likely to clear the entire zone while doing it (for multiple pieces) rather than kill one mob. My major annoyance though comes from the simple fact that I like to quest, and would rather not have to coerce a large amount of people for assistance every time I want to do one. Some of those types of quests are perfectly fine. Many, or all the high end quests being that way sucks.

This is my last ever post you will be glad to know because most people here are either trolling or just plain stupid.

How can Noobs compete on a mob like this with you when they need to get organised into an 18 man raid to do what you can do with 6. In effect you have confirmed exactly what people have been saying.

It's actually pretty simple. You find out when it was killed last by scouting. You then plan to get 6 people boxing over there. You then sit on until it spawns. Kill giants while you wait. It's good practice for later tiers.

Same goes with PoLore quests that means half the mobs are sniped by 6 man groups.

We aren't talking about handing things on a plate to people, we are just saying they don't need a large percentage of low tier mobs being sniped so that somebody's 4th alt can get a shiny new toy.

Yes, because quests are obviously done simply to get gear for alts.

Some people do have a sense of fair play but others have a very clear message, we want you to train up your toons to 65:50 or so and buy all our overpriced shit so we can get our alts their 1.2M charms but then just delete your toons cos we have no time to let you develop as it's not part of our plan.

Poorly written emotional appeal is poorly written and emotional. If that is the message you have acquired from reading this thread, you need to reread it.

First off, the idea of goods being overpriced is laughable. The market prices have declined drastically over the years. In the areas of spells, and gear.

Also solid advice is simply that. Solid. Having worked my way through these particular tiers, I did exactly the same. I geared my character in the best dropables I could find, enabling my guild to progress faster than if I had not. It benefits one over simply doing the raid content at the lower tiers in numerous ways.

1. Faster raid progression
2. Faster xp
3. Faster farming

It's also a hell of alot cheaper to do nowadays.

Unfortunately this latter group dominate the forums and influence a lot of policy.

Wow, it is such a big surprise that the people who know a ridiculous amount about the game because they have been here a million years actually speak. Who would have thought. Stop the presses!

The only thing that influences policy is things that make sense. Things that do not make sense, do not influence policy. This has nothing to do with players, and everything to do with logic.

 

[Cinn]

Wow, it is such a big surprise that the people who know a ridiculous amount about the game because they have been here a million years actually speak. Who would have thought. Stop the presses!

The only thing that influences policy is things that make sense. Things that do not make sense, do not influence policy. This has nothing to do with players, and everything to do with logic.

this this a million times this

 

[Renshu]

How can Noobs compete on a mob like this with you when they need to get organised into an 18 man raid to do what you can do with 6.

This shit is just like everything else in life. If you want the good job, you better have a good resume and wear a suit. You can't just expect to show up in jeans and win. If you want the promotion over the 'top guy', you better out-work him.

So if some tier 1 guild wants to beat the bad-ass tier X guys, they better get their spawn timers set, they better claim the zone before someone else, etc.

This is the same kind of thread in the line of QQ uberz beat me to loot I wanted.

Man up or STFU.

 

[Harziel]

I wish to see it moved simply because it makes little sense to have one side be far easier than the other. This makes getting the other aug more difficult in a number of ways.

After reading the rest, the "Lower tiers get screwed" argument, isn't an argument, its just life.
I would still prefer , like vistachiri, to have the aug on a similar difficulty mob or something that requires similar amounts of time to get to. One of the devs mentioned the reason it was on Rymaz initially was because not enough people were killing giants, so that was one reason for making it on an easier target. People not killing giants isn't as much of an issue anymore (I think....).
Frost king is and will always be a joke compared Empress clearing in terms of time commitment/effort. Similar rewards should take similar-ish effort to get.

 

[keetar]

This is my last ever post you will be glad to know because most people here are either trolling or just plain stupid.

How can Noobs compete on a mob like this with you when they need to get organised into an 18 man raid to do what you can do with 6. In effect you have confirmed exactly what people have been saying.

Same goes with PoLore quests that means half the mobs are sniped by 6 man groups.

We aren't talking about handing things on a plate to people, we are just saying they don't need a large percentage of low tier mobs being sniped so that somebody's 4th alt can get a shiny new toy.

Some people do have a sense of fair play but others have a very clear message, we want you to train up your toons to 65:50 or so and buy all our overpriced shit so we can get our alts their 1.2M charms but then just delete your toons cos we have no time to let you develop as it's not part of our plan.

Unfortunately this latter group dominate the forums and influence a lot of policy.

I just have to agree cus it was so perfectly written.

 

[Otcho]

The only reason I bring up putting the head on dergalak aisling is because the clear in stormseye is painfully short compared to dhk, the trash simply don't compare in difficulty. Theres no hassle split like penerellia involved and most of the trash is a snooze fest unless your low end and extremely bad at stormseye (aka have a bard and dispell).

The clear and encounter for glib still does not really compare, I have never done dergalak with an on tier force but i am fairly sure its possible. Hell I am not even sure if glib would increase the clear time from the high end perspective, it would just make it so a monk/shaman cant duo the boss.

I don't give a shit about this moral debate but you should totally be for moving the head to a more adequate target.

 

[Notpit]

I think the thread has pretty much run its course. I am going to end my active participation by expressing a couple of opinions that differs from many in this thread.

I do understand that the game does reward the hardcore players and guilds. This goes far beyond n00b vs uber. Yes, a lower tiered guild can compete with a higher tiered one if they maintain a raidable presence around the clock. This is indeed fair and yes, is "life".

I do think that there are some like-minded players who do not enjoy removing raid opportunities from other guilds. I am not particularly talking about just this target, but in general. It may be "life" and even "fair" to screw over a guild to get what I want. But I really get plenty of that bitter pill in real life. I enjoy games where I do not have to be an ass to succeed. I do not think it is necessary in many occurrences where it currently exists.

So, if it is QQ or overly emotional for me to make this suggestion, then it is over me losing some enjoyment of this game that I enjoy very much for most other aspects. I have no need for this head for any of my toons. This is also not about my guild. Amicii has been successful in finding raiding content in this competitive game.

To sum this up, I recommend a conscious attempt to limit content that requires players who are likely higher-tiered from removing raid content from lower-tiered guilds (or pick-up raids). This is merely my suggestion with the intent of attempting to reduce the attitude of total disregard of the impact on eighteen real life people, who just may log on expecting an enjoyable night of raiding, only to discover that all the near-tier zones are down, partially because some guys downed zones, or goodly portions of them, merely to get one item from a quest.

 

[Kelval]

The only reason I bring up putting the head on dergalak aisling is because the clear in stormseye is painfully short compared to dhk, the trash simply don't compare in difficulty. Theres no hassle split like penerellia involved and most of the trash is a snooze fest unless your low end and extremely bad at stormseye (aka have a bard and dispell).

The clear and encounter for glib still does not really compare, I have never done dergalak with an on tier force but i am fairly sure its possible. Hell I am not even sure if glib would increase the clear time from the high end perspective, it would just make it so a monk/shaman cant duo the boss.

I don't give a shit about this moral debate but you should totally be for moving the head to a more adequate target.

Amicii's done it twice with an on tier force back in the days, we were barely tier 5 by then (I remember both offtanks still using Warlord's Chestplate so yeah). It's hard as fuck and requires some work, but it's doable.