The King's head Must Roll!!
- Thread starter Kirin Folken
- Start date
No. The logic is that Rymaz is too easy; you can clear to and kill him with less than a group in about 30 minutes.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
I think you all are misunderstanding bud, he is stating that its unacceptable for it to be on the frost king. There is nothing balanced in the way it currently is and absolutely no good reason it should be on the king.
Please tyvec enlighten me as to why it should remain on the king?
Please tyvec enlighten me as to why it should remain on the king?
Tyvec-a-tron
Dalayan Adventurer
Don't get all faggot about it, I don't really care either way what happens to the King head. I like the competition around the King, but I'll be killing any mob dropping the quest head.
That is cool, but maybe read just my two posts before calling me magnificently stupid is the minimal effort you should make.
I am not gong to do a point by point response. I don't think you are trying to troll me, but you clearly did not read my two posts. What exactly makes you think that I said high end players have any less of a right to the target than on-tier players?
I think that I was pretty clear that I find this kind of competition to be in conflict with my own playing style. It has nothing to do with fairness. It has to do with me not wanting to screw player X so that I can get a new shiny thing. I also think it is detrimental for a small group of people to lock down a trivial target. While some may not agree, surely it is not that difficult to understand why I think it is detrimental.
I'm by no means a "hardcore" player. The other day I got into a pickup raid to DHK and had the opportunity to roll on empress' head. I later went to the artificers in stormkeep where the king (not the * version if there is one) was up..
Not sure that this is a problem.
Not sure that this is a problem.
Ok, I get what you are trying to say, but maybe try to look at it from a different perspective. I am not trying to attack you here, just trying to clarify your argument whether it means you are right or it means showing you need to re-think something. No need for the hate.
There are people (believe it or not) who want to progress WITHOUT trying to buy a bunch of gear to skip content. Who maybe want to make it all the way up on their own. Also, just because his loot can be skipped doesn't mean it should be. If that logic (and your road analogy) were applied to all raid targets there would be no point in having a number of targets around, why not just have a single progression that everyone had to follow, and then eventually people could just win the game and be done. Also, your alts that are looting the stuff are still obviously using it right? When you could easily go ahead and get better gear from higher tier stuff or the superior droppables you are talking about to make your crappy alts less crappy. Therefore in some way the loot is worthwhile to you, and thus it is not a huge leap in logic to assume it is then worthwhile for other people. That is all I am saying.
PS I don't hate you hate for having a different opinion than mine.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
A bit of concern. I think derg personally is going to be a wee bit harder than Empress. Sure the throne room split is rough, but you're looking at a rough ass fight with a good enchanter at a low tier for dergelak for the entire raid. Having done them both at various tiers I'd say its a mismatch.
Glib is a highly desirable target for the tier (good loot, not easily replaceable by dropables, decent clickies that last through tiers), bit of a clear to get to him, etc. Personally I think he's a better fit.
The alt loot argument is ridiculous. If you're killing it for a quest, rotting the loot if one could use it on an alt, and not having to spend money on said alt to get the best shiny toy, would be stupid and wasteful. A great deal of players have alts just for soaking loot from tmaps, etc. If one has to spend the effort, might as well make it as worthwhile as one can.
Glib is a highly desirable target for the tier (good loot, not easily replaceable by dropables, decent clickies that last through tiers), bit of a clear to get to him, etc. Personally I think he's a better fit.
The alt loot argument is ridiculous. If you're killing it for a quest, rotting the loot if one could use it on an alt, and not having to spend money on said alt to get the best shiny toy, would be stupid and wasteful. A great deal of players have alts just for soaking loot from tmaps, etc. If one has to spend the effort, might as well make it as worthwhile as one can.
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Which affirms that the end target of this quest results in the repeated and unnecessary clearing of a raid zone, with virtually all the loot, desirable by on tier guilds, is "wasted" on alts or sub-tier characters. To suggest that this scenario is not desirable for the server is not ridiculous.
Kirin Folken
Dalayan Elder
I'm sticking by my OP, hail them to spawn a *version thats a bit harder, and only drops head. The quest is a reward for chooseing a faction, it is not a Bottleneck (unless a staff memeber comes in and says otherwise).
You already had to work your faction to ally, and doing the final part locks you into only being able to kill 1 faction (unless your willing to destroy that aug forever).
Moving the head to Ice Lord, would then make it much harder to get Scale Aug vs Storm Aug. Only way I like that is if both king and Ice Lord drop head (would then need to add a drop to dragon side). But doing then your still wasting an encounter to over powered raid force, your increaseing the chance to get head a bit but destroying yet another encounter.
You already had to work your faction to ally, and doing the final part locks you into only being able to kill 1 faction (unless your willing to destroy that aug forever).
Moving the head to Ice Lord, would then make it much harder to get Scale Aug vs Storm Aug. Only way I like that is if both king and Ice Lord drop head (would then need to add a drop to dragon side). But doing then your still wasting an encounter to over powered raid force, your increaseing the chance to get head a bit but destroying yet another encounter.
I can understand them wanting to raid what is suppose to be there .. for on teir targets.. It happens. With all the quests going in and people killing for Quests all of theses mobs now .. Every zone has Artifacts... What is happening Overall if Lower Teired targets are getting taken down quite quickly and a lot Leaving those that are working on that content nothing to do. I will also say this seems to be at the high end aswell not because of quests .. just because so many guilds are now fighting over content. Anyhow Back on Track .. The only Way I can see a Fair way to balance both of those mobs Princess / King.. Would be Remove both augs from them. Make a new mob in another zone and all he dose it quest peace. Your First idea is very good about having the * version kill-able .. but I hate to hell ya that won't help you a Bit. It will still be contested that way everyone will still kill it, Unless your talking about removing the head from the normal one. In that case people would kill it to spawn the * version. Basicly Everyone on the server needs the aug and only 2 mobs drop it that spawn ever 4 days. So it is the oldest bottle neck there is.
But thats my 2 cents.
But thats my 2 cents.
Kirin Folken
Dalayan Elder
Believe it or not but some guilds wouldn't kill the real one if they had the option not to. This would allowed them that option, also being able to get the head other ways would decrease the # of toons waiting on the side line for the head. Again causeing the real one to be killed less by those that dont need the loots.
Haveing a totaly different mob drop it sadly wouldn't make sense with the fluff thats in game current for the quest.
A option I had thought of is prehaps breaking the quest down into random drops off the mobs of each faction. That you use for a combine and hand in to each sides leader. This takes the preasure completetly off these named raid mobs and puts it on the trash. Of course this idea has its own problems.
Example:
Get Container from Faction leader (empress or King)
Get trash item A from Great Divide (both sides)
Get trash item B from Eastern Wastes (pro-Dragon)
Get trash item B from Western Wastes (pro-giant)
Get trash item C from DHK (pro-giant)
Get trash item C from SE (pro-Dragon)
Get Ground spawn D from SK (pro-Dragon)
Get Ground spawn D from DHK (pro-Giant)
Combine 4 items into container.. hand to Empress/King to spawn NPC.
Hail NPC, to engage... Loot final item off NPC hand to king/Empress for aug. (*version for hand in works fine)
NPC you spawn would remain active for a set time before despawning. If you can't kill it in that set time... go collect the items again.
Haveing a totaly different mob drop it sadly wouldn't make sense with the fluff thats in game current for the quest.
A option I had thought of is prehaps breaking the quest down into random drops off the mobs of each faction. That you use for a combine and hand in to each sides leader. This takes the preasure completetly off these named raid mobs and puts it on the trash. Of course this idea has its own problems.
Example:
Get Container from Faction leader (empress or King)
Get trash item A from Great Divide (both sides)
Get trash item B from Eastern Wastes (pro-Dragon)
Get trash item B from Western Wastes (pro-giant)
Get trash item C from DHK (pro-giant)
Get trash item C from SE (pro-Dragon)
Get Ground spawn D from SK (pro-Dragon)
Get Ground spawn D from DHK (pro-Giant)
Combine 4 items into container.. hand to Empress/King to spawn NPC.
Hail NPC, to engage... Loot final item off NPC hand to king/Empress for aug. (*version for hand in works fine)
NPC you spawn would remain active for a set time before despawning. If you can't kill it in that set time... go collect the items again.
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robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
You DO have the option not to kill it. But you want the loot that it drops. This is the same as literally every other loot-dropping mob in the game.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
It suggests nothing as to whether the loot is in fact desirable by on tier guilds. Cheap things, are tiers ahead. Also a single raid mob, does not a raidzone make. There are many other mobs in stormkeep. Generally when those other ones are killed, they are going to be killed anyways for relics (see husrag, and if I'm not mistaken High Priest Coralsha). This has absolutely nothing to do with the quest, whose only target is Rymaz himself.
By your own argument, over half of the quests in the game should not be.
This would be a true statement if he was at the zone entrance or you could otherwise bypass much of the zone. Frankly, I am giant faction and I know that to get that drop you have to kill all of NDHK except the very, very end. And by then the guild might as well finish it off, since they have gone through the gruel of getting that deep.
Only other one I can think of is the Vah quest, and that bottleneck is just one mob. Yes, the competition is brutal. But at least it is not locking down practically an entire zone.
Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
A lot of that has to do with extent. I'd like to think I'm not the only person who views [The Vah] and [Relic Hunters] as huge mistakes that have encouraged a kilobunchton of low-tier raid target stomping without concern for how it affects people in new guilds that are struggling to break into the raid game.
Mitigating this result would help a lot with the feeling of "I guess I will just have to jump tiers and join a different guild to progress" feeling that many Tier 3-5 characters have.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Incorrect. If you have not chosen a faction yet (ie gotten an aug) you simply need to spend a very short amount of time walking to the area just outside of the throne room. That is one of the many super cool benefits to be gained by waiting and killing both actually. If you get a bunch of ringers that aren't factioned it's actually incredibly fun times to walk up, punch her in the eye, and fight all of them at once.
You can bypass every single other named in the zone getting to rymaz. While I feel this should not be, and have always felt rymaz was a poor choice (which is also why everyone and their brother at the high end kills giants, easier), that does not make poor logic which basically amounts to the same thing as "for the children!!!" arguments work.
I feel it is a poor choice to have it on rymaz because of his difficulty primarily. As I've already alluded to. Dergelak however is also I feel a poor choice, as he is more difficult. Putting it on him would essentially be like having 5 bricks on one side of the scale, 2 on the other, and then throwing 10 more bricks on the side with 2.
Glib however has a similar trash clear to him. He has a gimmick as well, is possible around the same time, etc.
If that is the only one you can think of, even when it comes to the Vah quest that involves taking decent loot (a completely different situation from king, whose loot is generally awful) away from lower tiered characters, I am not sure exactly which game you have been playing.
I can think of an assload in the vah alone. Let's see here. Some in Sepulcher (I forget his name, is it scribe? Think so). Earth Terror, Parcelan, Astatine, Lasanth. Hey, I'll even be nice and leave the large variety of 3 day 6 man content with nodrop gear.
Lets see what else we have here. Well relic hunters wants you to kill pretty much everything in the fucking game for starters. Dungeon Delvers asks some similar things towards the end with regard to 6man (and if we're following your logic, I'd include 6man in taking targets away from appropriately tiered characters). Hell, I'll throw in an oldie! Shield of Freeport, good luck lasanth old buddy. Silver crown faction quests also run into some possible problems here (freeport nameds actually way back used to be hit by raids fairly often, before their loot was surpassed in every way imaginable). So chalk that one up to an earlier, similar problem.
As for 6man, which I've mentioned several times already, cramming several thousand quest pieces on the same mob tends to make said mob difficult to catch up to. When said mob is involved in a higher level quest, kiss most chances of ever seeing that mobs loot goodbye for casuals. Why? Because a casual player will generally not dump even close to the amount of effort the more dedicated players will. By sheer definition. Thus it's going to get yoinked alot.
Also, again. It is not locking down the entire zone to kill rymaz. Rymaz is generally sniped. Coralsha is generally untouched, and so is Husrag. The other named are often killed by xp groups. Occasionally Husrag and Coralsha are too.
Couldn't agree more. I've been saying that for quite some time actually. While I wouldn't like to see things move off to fuckall hard content just because one is higher tiered when a quest comes out, it would be kind of nice to not have to monopolize the entire raid game for a month or two to get shit done. Would I do it? Sure. Have myself and others done it? Yep. Doesn't mean we're happy about it.
I also don't think it helps much to have a massive influx of super powerful alts that tagged along with ringers crushing all of this back content. Granted some amount of that is unavoidable, but jesus. It's been alooooot faster. Crushing old raid content used to be something to do mostly for gearing up alts, or for fun. Now it's alot more necessary, and I don't think that is a good thing.
Yeah, some do I'd imagine. Though I think for the most part we've improved in that regard over the years. Once you get to the area of the planes at least. Bit more selection. Before that you can pour money into making your character better (in areas other than charms, which are a hey I have nothing left to do with money thing). Which is something I think many players miss. But I digress.
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