The Eternal Well
- Thread starter Eustace
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NeoReloaded
Dalayan Elder
It does seem kinda dumb to be able to do Generals without a Farhag flag, especially since it's 1 tier above Well/Farhags. This being said, it's also a dumb idea to skip Farhanniath.
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i agree with everything, let's look at this from numinous' stand point, we spend a night killing folerit, gondolas, and farhanniath and zone into the well for it to be down, receive no usable flag. and have the real flagging mob ganked from us, by a guild that spent the whole night before wiping to gondolas? that's the only reason we were able to go to farhags that night is because PR could not kill gondolas. so as we go in to try gondolas, folerit spawns and blocks the path, we kill folerit, continue with gondolas, and then take down farhanniath. then PR comes and is like ohhai thankes for the free flag?
EDIT: Now instead of just exo cock blocking us from getting the well flag, we shot ourselves in the foot and let pr cock block us too. we would have been better off to just leave farhag up and have less competition in the long run
EDIT: Now instead of just exo cock blocking us from getting the well flag, we shot ourselves in the foot and let pr cock block us too. we would have been better off to just leave farhag up and have less competition in the long run
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Hi.
You claim it is a "difficult encounter" like you earned the right to be there, despite the fact that you have thus far been unable to clear to it yourselves. It has nothing to do with the encounters being down, you are simply not capable of clearing Farhags.
I'd call that grabbing straws.
Edit: Also, nut hugging Woldaff doesn't really make your argument anymore valid.
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JDJersey
Dalayan Elder
Bud: Quality post, really. All you're doing is sounding really butt-hurt and not making any points. Make a point. Please. I'd be happy to discuss this with you. Present an argument either for your points or against mine. Cite something like an admin quote or something from the rules, anything. Please. I beg of you. I really want you to not look as badly as you do.
Severien
Dalayan Adventurer
How is a warrior in a tier 5-6 raiding guild somehow butthurt over the fact that you're in Well? From the other side of the arguement, you sound like you're desperately clinging to Woldaff's comment because you don't want to lose the ability to scoop gear off of the back end of Farhags.
Heres an arguement that should make some sense:
Being able to skip Farhags and do Well for gear and flags does not compute. To me it is akin to training away mobs in your path to get to other mobs. These are obviously bosses placed in a certain order that ideally you should move from one to the next until completion. Farhanniath stands right on top of the Well. He is the Guardian of the Well. It simply makes sense for the game to work this way.
Heres an arguement that should make some sense:
Being able to skip Farhags and do Well for gear and flags does not compute. To me it is akin to training away mobs in your path to get to other mobs. These are obviously bosses placed in a certain order that ideally you should move from one to the next until completion. Farhanniath stands right on top of the Well. He is the Guardian of the Well. It simply makes sense for the game to work this way.
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Man Bud sounds smart for once you bash him. Give him a break, hes new at this.
The only issue anyone sees here is that PR hasn't been able to kill Farhanniath. Had that been done previously, everyone would be like "gratz PR". But you didn't, and the flagging question is what is being brought up here. It doesn't make sense to be able to go to an encounter like Generals, without killing someone like Farhanniath. Arguably, Farhanniath is easier than Gondolas and Parildec, and Well (since Numi hasn't done it, this is from hearsay) compared to the rest of Farhags is like free loot. So, without killing Farhanniath and getting his flag, you are able to go to Generals.
That doesn't make sense. Now you can port past Flarefiends, and basically straight into Well (wooooo 2 trash mobs??) without having all your flags. Missing a flag is missing a flag, anyway you look at it. That is the thing being questioned here. It just doesn't make sense. If there was no flag from Farhanniath, the only flag being from Well, there wouldn't be any issue here either, but that isn't the case.
I understand Wolds position is that the Farhanniath flag is for making weapons and not for advancing, and thats fine and dandy, but if you have to kill Well to get the weapon imbuer to spawn, wouldn't it make sense that you'd have to have the flag to go to the place this weapon imbuer is in the first place?
The only issue anyone sees here is that PR hasn't been able to kill Farhanniath. Had that been done previously, everyone would be like "gratz PR". But you didn't, and the flagging question is what is being brought up here. It doesn't make sense to be able to go to an encounter like Generals, without killing someone like Farhanniath. Arguably, Farhanniath is easier than Gondolas and Parildec, and Well (since Numi hasn't done it, this is from hearsay) compared to the rest of Farhags is like free loot. So, without killing Farhanniath and getting his flag, you are able to go to Generals.
That doesn't make sense. Now you can port past Flarefiends, and basically straight into Well (wooooo 2 trash mobs??) without having all your flags. Missing a flag is missing a flag, anyway you look at it. That is the thing being questioned here. It just doesn't make sense. If there was no flag from Farhanniath, the only flag being from Well, there wouldn't be any issue here either, but that isn't the case.
I understand Wolds position is that the Farhanniath flag is for making weapons and not for advancing, and thats fine and dandy, but if you have to kill Well to get the weapon imbuer to spawn, wouldn't it make sense that you'd have to have the flag to go to the place this weapon imbuer is in the first place?
"the real flagging mob ganked from us, by a guild that spent the whole night before wiping to gondolas?"
"the only reason we were able to go to farhags that night is because PR could not kill gondolas."
PR has killed gondolas before, that raid your talking about we went to farhags towards the
end of our raid in hopes of sniping the last farhag dude real quick before the raid ended,
he had recently poped and I noticed him on track...
When we arrived in the wing and started clearing the minis started poping on us
(the 3rd one and 4th), along with the trash.
By the time we got to gondolas, we had time for like 2 attemps and people
had to log off, also we were missing a few, since as i said it was towards the
end of the raid, it was just an issue of us running out of time in that case tbh.
"the only reason we were able to go to farhags that night is because PR could not kill gondolas."
PR has killed gondolas before, that raid your talking about we went to farhags towards the
end of our raid in hopes of sniping the last farhag dude real quick before the raid ended,
he had recently poped and I noticed him on track...
When we arrived in the wing and started clearing the minis started poping on us
(the 3rd one and 4th), along with the trash.
By the time we got to gondolas, we had time for like 2 attemps and people
had to log off, also we were missing a few, since as i said it was towards the
end of the raid, it was just an issue of us running out of time in that case tbh.
Tyvec-a-tron
Dalayan Adventurer
He's not butthurt, he's just trolling. Not that there isn't more context here, because there is.
Manguadi summed this up nicely. The devs like the way it works, but continue to argue till you're blue in the face. Not that I know much about those encounters.
JDJersey
Dalayan Elder
Kibeth has a pretty good arguement. It's definitely worth considering. I think it'd be nice to know more of the reasoning behind the ruling. It might not be as simple as linear progression like the rest of the zone is. I mean, considering you can kill aansag without needing to have kill Ghan first, and they both give marks (iirc), then it could be said that you're content skipping to kill aansag if he's up and ghan is down. It might be something akin to that.
Edit: also, yeah sorry bout that :/ He came across as butt-hurt, I guess he was just trolling. I apologize for that assumption.
Edit: also, yeah sorry bout that :/ He came across as butt-hurt, I guess he was just trolling. I apologize for that assumption.
I had no problem with them killing well, my problem is they can now port directly to the well and skip the high chieftain. Which of course would let them deny us until we get lucky and catch it up on our time.
Like it was mentioned before, as far as our progression goes....we would have been better off leaving the wing up to block them from doing well (who knows, maybe they clear out everything anyways, but we'll never know) and letting Exo grab the well when it spawned. It's a pretty disappointing series of events but it seems like those in power have spoken, so...
Edit - Yes I know farhags are to well as corefire is to melamor, but when you kill corefire....a flag mob doesn't spawn like it does with high chieftain.
Like it was mentioned before, as far as our progression goes....we would have been better off leaving the wing up to block them from doing well (who knows, maybe they clear out everything anyways, but we'll never know) and letting Exo grab the well when it spawned. It's a pretty disappointing series of events but it seems like those in power have spoken, so...
Edit - Yes I know farhags are to well as corefire is to melamor, but when you kill corefire....a flag mob doesn't spawn like it does with high chieftain.
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Here is how it works:
ToT is separated into multiple "bookmarks"
Bookmarks are there to allow you to resume your way through the zone after killing a specific encounter. Because of guild competition all mobs between bookmarks are claimed as a singular unit. This means that a guild of higher tier can not go snipe a bookmark mob while another guild is clearing to it to prevent the second guild from achieving that bookmark.
The bookmark interval in question is from the death of melamore to the ring from eternal well. Although skipping mobs by yourself in a bookmark is illegal you can luck out and find that another guild has cleared mobs for you. Since we are never going to allow a guild to leave a zone and keep its claim on that zone (I should not even have to explain why this would be a logistical nightmare) another guild who wishes to try their hand at the mobs left up in that bookmark unit is welcome to.
Now in this case a guild was able to use this to skip what is considered to be the bottleneck in the wing. Is this shitty? Yes. Is there a realistic policy option that we can easily implement to counter the *rare* occurrence of this? Not really.
So Numinous gave PR an easy key. Being that the key takes them to a mob that will take a good bit of farhag farming (or equivalent) to do I really am not going to loose much sleep.
ToT is separated into multiple "bookmarks"
Bookmarks are there to allow you to resume your way through the zone after killing a specific encounter. Because of guild competition all mobs between bookmarks are claimed as a singular unit. This means that a guild of higher tier can not go snipe a bookmark mob while another guild is clearing to it to prevent the second guild from achieving that bookmark.
The bookmark interval in question is from the death of melamore to the ring from eternal well. Although skipping mobs by yourself in a bookmark is illegal you can luck out and find that another guild has cleared mobs for you. Since we are never going to allow a guild to leave a zone and keep its claim on that zone (I should not even have to explain why this would be a logistical nightmare) another guild who wishes to try their hand at the mobs left up in that bookmark unit is welcome to.
Now in this case a guild was able to use this to skip what is considered to be the bottleneck in the wing. Is this shitty? Yes. Is there a realistic policy option that we can easily implement to counter the *rare* occurrence of this? Not really.
So Numinous gave PR an easy key. Being that the key takes them to a mob that will take a good bit of farhag farming (or equivalent) to do I really am not going to loose much sleep.
*shoots himself in the head*
Ahhh well....sucks for us, wish we had known that before we stayed up till 4am clearing that out. Live and learn I guess.
Severien
Dalayan Adventurer
Its nice when a dev acknowledges this, even if they cant do anything about it.
(That means thank you).
Nothing in my post reflected any amount of "butthurt." In fact, I'd say your quick snap and defensive tone is more reminiscent of a sore ass. If anything, I was being offensive. I think you're cute though, so we'll do it your way. :3
I cannot comprehend how anything can be as dense as you apparently are. The amount of density you exude rivals that of a black hole. You tell me to "cite an admin quote" as if it were relevant. It's not. I don't need to "make a point" because Eustace has already done so, quite articulately even. But hey, we can go on.
Disregarding everything Eustace wrote, my mentality is built on a foundation of COMMON FUCKING SENSE. I'll give you a minute if you want to attempt using it...
...
...
Okay, I trust that was a sufficient amount of time to digest the colossal concept of common sense. Moving on.
I'll offer this next bit in concise format:
Common sense tells me that if you are unable (read: DO NOT HAVE THE MOTHER FUCKING CAPACITY) to overcome obstacles to get from Point A to Point B, then you do not deserve to be there. Here, I drew you a picture:
I even made a couple "points" for you. I hope that was clear enough, or do I still "look bad?"
Edit:
Actually there is. The policy would read something like, "Stay the fuck out of The Eternal Well until you've cleared Farhags." How can something like that be enforced? Easy. Let the population play the tattle tale game.
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To bad this is compleetly untrue. As we got to gondolas already more then an hour past our ussual end of raid time. And some people had to log off since it was 4am for them and they had to work the day after.
I would be much happier if you left the Farhag boss up so we could go there and kill him.
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