Suggestions to make Wizards more interesting

Pecannius · Jun 30, 2014

Background: I haven't mained a wizard. I don't have a wizard alt or anything but have boxed one in various groups and raids. They make great boxes because they're fairly simple to play at a high level of efficiency. Probably the easiest box dps class.

Wizards are useful and fulfill their role pretty well in my limited experience. The biggest issue with wizards in my opinion is that wizards are just freaking boring! I'm not saying this as a rant. I just think that they could just use some loving. I'm not dwelving into whether or not their dps should be nerfed/buffed, just the playstyle is so boring. If you play a wizard, I'm guessing you must either box a lot or have a really strong affinity to your character/guild etc. Which isn't bad, it would just be nice if they were more fun/complex to play.

Sure, it's fun when you can ABS / AE stuff, runic 1 is pretty cool and seeing a huge primal is fun, but honestly, 95% of the time you're just spamming the 1 nuke depending on your spells/zone you're in. There's not much more to the wizard class.

Wizards feel to me that they are in the state that warriors where before the warrior stance rework (same state in terms of monotony). Warriors before were just auto attack, taunt/kick etc, fall asleep. The warrior rework turned the warrior into a really fun class to play with lots of situational stances and strategic decisions on how your setup should be and what stances you should use. I know the staff doesn't get enough praise because there's always something to complain about, the warrior rework was simply amazing! Imo, it was a model of how a rework can turn a boring class into a fun class without changing the overall class balance much.

Disclaimer: Brainstorming fun mechanics that can be added to a wizard. I'm no expert and the numbers are pure speculation off the top of my head in 15 minutes so please just take this as it is, brainstorming.

Suggestion:
Wizard elemental stances (kinda like monk combos, except instead of kicks, landing elemental nukes in certain sequence while in a certain stance)
/s 4 cold stance combos
-cold -> cold -> cold = Cold dmg nuke for the average mana casted of the 3 nukes casted.
Ex: 3 moon comets = (525 + 525 + 525)/3 = 525dmg
-cold -> fire -> cold = Increase spell dmg by cold by the average casting time of the 3 nukes casted for the next spell cast
Ex: Moon comet + Fire relic + moon comet = (5.75 + 6 + 5.75) = 5.83% dmg increase
-cold -> magic -> cold = Slow/Snare mob by 10% for the total casting time of the 3 nukes casted rounded to the nearest tick
Ex: Moon comet + Runic 1 + Moon comet = 5.75 + 1 + 5.75 = 12.5 seconds = 2 ticks

/s5 fire stance combos
fire -> fire -> fire = Fire dmg dot doing average mana of the 3 nukes each tick for 3 ticks.
fire -> cold -> fire = Apply a -40 fire/cold debuff to the mob for 3 ticks.
fire -> magic -> fire = Stun the mob for the average casting time of the 3 nukes, max lv 65.

/s 6 magic stance combos
magic -> magic -> magic = Next melee swing will do an AE weapon proc for the average mana of the 3 nukes casted
magic -> fire -> magic = Spell dmg rune for the group equal to the average mana cost of the 3 nukes casted
magic -> cold -> magic = Increase spell dmg of the next magic nuke by double the average casting time of the 3 nukes casted (5 seconds avg would be 10%). 5% of the total dmg dealt with this nuke is dealt to you also.

Sorry for the inevitability of some/all of my suggestions being bad / impossible to implement. I just think it would be cool if wizards were more fun to play.

TLDR: make wizards more fun than just spamming 1 button 95% of the time.

donfolstar3 · Jun 30, 2014

This is a very creative idea, but no. No because Wizards should be content fapping to big numbers as that is the stated class design [citation needed].

Tevinter · Jun 30, 2014

the fact that you thing a wizard spams 1 button the entire time to do dps shows that you lack an understanding of the class. There is an already existing combo system for a 1 button class and it turned the 1 button class into a different 1 button class, i would not like to see this idea implemented in any way shape or form

Pecannius · Jun 30, 2014

Tevinter said:
the fact that you thing a wizard spams 1 button the entire time to do dps shows that you lack an understanding of the class.

I never said that a wizard spams 1 button the entire time, just most of the time and I already admitted my lack of advanced wizard knowledge

Tevinter said:
There is an already existing combo system for a 1 button class and it turned the 1 button class into a different 1 button class

Just because a system for 1 class wasn't implemented to be dynamic enough for strategic decision making, doesn't mean any other system that roughly shares the name "combo system" would share the same fate. (Not talking about my suggestion, just in general).

enasc · Jun 30, 2014

Never heard a mained wizard complain about not having plenty to do and think about. Any wizard I've ever seen boxing drops in the dps rank very quickly. Actually, most mained wizards I've raided with you hear furiously clicking away over vent, so they seem to have lots of things to click.

idk, but caster dps seems to be in a fairly good spot right now. Changing things around and throwing them out of whack without reason seems silly, in my opinion.

Pecannius · Jul 1, 2014

enasc said:
Never heard a mained wizard complain about not having plenty to do and think about. Any wizard I've ever seen boxing drops in the dps rank very quickly. Actually, most mained wizards I've raided with you hear furiously clicking away over vent, so they seem to have lots of things to click.

I see the misunderstanding. I'm referring to T10 and below wizards, not the decked out ones. I concede that a high end wizard will be be pretty busy, but before you get all those cool clickies, there's not much to to at the low end

Moraelintz · Jul 1, 2014

Most of the clickies are pre T 10. The only real high end clicky is dots from gloves and a 200pt dd ring

Tevinter · Jul 1, 2014

I can list all of the useful pre tier 10 wizard clickies if you would like, but if you actually played the class you would understand it is much more than mashing moon comet to victory

Pecannius · Jul 1, 2014

Tevinter said:
I can list all of the useful pre tier 10 wizard clickies if you would like

Hehe if you don't mind I'm curious. I know of a handful but not enough to keep a wizard busy on a boss fight. Definitely not enough to keep a wizard busy on trash.

Nwaij · Jul 1, 2014

Tevinter said:
mashing moon comet to victory

This is a big part of being a wizard though!

Valv · Jul 1, 2014

Tevinter said:
it is much more than mashing moon comet to victory

I guess I box wiz wrong

Tevinter · Jul 2, 2014

Pecannius said:
Hehe if you don't mind I'm curious. I know of a handful but not enough to keep a wizard busy on a boss fight. Definitely not enough to keep a wizard busy on trash.

Pecannius · Jul 2, 2014

Ok, thanks for the list. My counter to this is that there are only 2 wizard only clickies (cmal gloves and wizard starfall quest) and only 1 of them even does dmg. I understand that casters in general have a lot of clickies to cast to maximize dps. So listing clickies that other casters can use is mostly irrelevant. This thread is called "Suggestions to make Wizards more interesting", not "Suggestions to make caster dps more interesting". My point is that most other dps have a more robust list of spells/skills besides clickies (with the exception of monk/rogs which I would agree should be made more interesting too). Mages have pet stances/positioning, necros have dot rotations, enchanters have SB/AoD timing etc etc. But for wizard spells, it's more monotonous. R1 was a fun step forward.

Tevinter said:
Every class is pretty boring on trash tbh. The big part of playing a wizard that makes it interesting is using your clickies at the right times, stacking intensify on longer fights, maximizing your burn during curses, managing mana etc. The class does do a lot of moon comet casting yeah, but there is definitely a whole lot more too it than just that.

I agree with what you said except for the underlined sentence. What I said above, that other dps classes have more variety than wizards.

In summary, if I'm the only one who cares about the issue I'll drop it. I know I've talked to several < T10 wizards that feel the same way, was trying to help them out and make the class more fun.

fxattack · Jul 2, 2014

Maybe wizards would be more interesting to play if they could tank and heal too. Wizards and rogues are boring classes by nature because they are only expected to do dmg against a mob. With greater group/raid responsibility comes more interesting things to do. Also, hybrid classes get more stuff to do and are less boring. You may have to dig deeper into class archetypes to solve your wizard problem.

Pecannius · Jul 2, 2014

fxattack said:
With greater group/raid responsibility comes more interesting things to do

That's the core the issue imo. Just because a class' only responsibility is to dps, doesn't mean that class needs to be boring to play. Little things could be added to make them more interesting. Similar to how the warrior went from auto attack/afk to actively using stance skills after that rework.

Tevinter · Jul 2, 2014

Pecannius said:
Ok, thanks for the list. My counter to this is that there are only 2 wizard only clickies (cmal gloves and wizard starfall quest) and only 1 of them even does dmg. I understand that casters in general have a lot of clickies to cast to maximize dps. So listing clickies that other casters can use is mostly irrelevant. This thread is called "Suggestions to make Wizards more interesting", not "Suggestions to make caster dps more interesting". My point is that most other dps have a more robust list of spells/skills besides clickies (with the exception of monk/rogs which I would agree should be made more interesting too). Mages have pet stances/positioning, necros have dot rotations, enchanters have SB/AoD timing etc etc. But for wizard spells, it's more monotonous. R1 was a fun step forward.

I agree with what you said except for the underlined sentence. What I said above, that other dps classes have more variety than wizards.

In summary, if I'm the only one who cares about the issue I'll drop it. I know I've talked to several < T10 wizards that feel the same way, was trying to help them out and make the class more fun.

You wanted clickies that a wizard uses to help keep them busy on a boss fight or whatever, but then say that all the ones that arent wizard only dont count? Why does an item become less interesting and thought provoking for a wizard to click because another class can use it? Thats like saying vah back isnt a dps clicky for rangers because tanks can use it. Yes other dps classes do have more buttons to push but that doesnt make wizard dps monotonous and boring. Just because riding a motorcycle is more complex than riding a bike it doesnt mean riding a bike is boring.

Nwaij · Jul 2, 2014

I never felt bored playing wizard.

Pecannius · Jul 2, 2014

Tevinter said:
You wanted clickies that a wizard uses to help keep them busy on a boss fight or whatever, but then say that all the ones that arent wizard only dont count? Why does an item become less interesting and thought provoking for a wizard to click because another class can use it?

The point is that it these clickies are equally "thought provoking" for a wizard to use, compared to other classes. And when doing a direct class comparison in terms of complexity, if something can be used by classes for roughly the same purpose, then it's for the most part irrelevant (except if you rationalize that the clickies are more useful a wizard since they scale better with said clickies). Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Tevinter said:
Just because riding a motorcycle is more complex than riding a bike it doesnt mean riding a bike is boring.

When comparing a simple task vs a complex task, it doesn't mean the simple task is objectively boring. I agree with you on that.
But it does mean that simple task could be considered relatively boring compared to the complex task. That is my point. Classes will never be totally equal in regards to complexity. However, the suggestion was an effort to bring the level of complexity a little up to match other classes.

All in all, I can see the appeal of playing a wizard once you get all these fun clickies to maximize your dps. My viewpoint was more slanted towards the newer players who don't have these clickies (should have mentioned this in the OP). You know, increasing server population and all that jazz.

Moraelintz · Jul 2, 2014

The thing about wizards is that they for the most part are stupid high dps for the tier. Eventually when able to min/max others can start to catch up. I am not trying to be rude but if you want more diversity try another class. Some people like tanking some like healing and some like nuking the crap out of mobs for really big numbers.

Pecannius · Jul 2, 2014

Moraelintz said:
I am not trying to be rude but if you want more diversity try another class. Some people like tanking some like healing and some like nuking the crap out of mobs for really big numbers.

Like I said, I don't play a wizard, only box one on occasion. I don't want their dps to get buffed, and talking about their dps is irrelevant to the reason I brought this stuff up. I just suggesting ways to make them more fun. This is based on conversations I've had with lower tier wizards that don't post here

Moraelintz said:
The thing about wizards is that they for the most part are stupid high dps for the tier.

I understand how it's impossible in reality to disassociate wizards dps with their playstyle, that's why I was making theoretical suggestions. If the theoretical suggestions to make wizards more fun gained traction, then brainstorming could occur to try to balance wizard dps with suggested changes, but it didn't so it's a moot point.

Suggestions to make Wizards more interesting

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