Stealing Gets You Promoted

X

Xardon

Dalayan Beginner
I'm in need of some venting ... so bear with me ...

I'm a technical consultant for a school district here in NY ... and two of our tech guys, we'll call them Steve and Bob, brought to my attention that a 3rd co-worker of ours, we'll call him John, was taking school district A/V and computer equipment and selling them on E-Bay. To confirm this, they showed me some of the things he was selling. There were things like, brand new TI-89 graphing calculators still in the packaging. A/V Camera lenses, their studio mixers for their communications classes. (See the links at the end of the post) When they showed this to me, being a consultant, I had to notify my company that I was shown this information. Now that I was made aware of the issue, my company needed to know so they can protect themselves. I submitted a report to them of my findings, at which point, they informed me that I need to bring this to the District's attention immediately. I informed Steve and Bob that I was going to have to bring this higher up in the District, per my company. At that point they told John he was caught and that I was going to let the District know what was going on. John then decided to confess, however, he only confessed to stealing and selling the two lenses (items 1 and 2) ... and denied the rest.

After the district took my statement, they met with him yesterday. They refuse to give me the "details" of the agreement, but he is keeping his job with no punishment (I am assuming they came to an agreement where he must pay back the money he made for selling the two lenses, and that's all). Now he's telling people outside of the Technical Department that he was "set up" by me and that I was doing anything I could to get him fired. And that since he is still employed it proves I was the one in "the wrong" The un-ethical nature of this district disturbs me to no end. I cannot understand the reasons as to why this district would want to keep a liar, a cheat, and a thief among them.

E-Bay Items:

1. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21165&item=7590352277
2. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21165&item=7590352308
3. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30059&item=7567464258
4. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23785&item=7392513057
5. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=7372619035
Brand New Math Calculators, we found he sold 4+ of these brand new in the packages
6. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50581&item=5841145267
The clincher ... his jacket in the picture ...
7. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21166&item=7570173878

Oh yeah ... and the running joke in the Tech Department now ... is that in the next year he'll get a promotion.
 
I told you, in IRC, that the next move will be that he gets promoted. I wasn't kidding. Good lord it sucks that even in the educational domain, you can't escape the general corporate crapiness.
 
I don't see why you didn't confront 'John' when you found out. Imo, that was a mistake. Forget regulations etc - it seems the sensible thing to do. Instead, you 'grass' on him. You can't expect him to be happy about it; rightly or wrongly, and reglardless of who was in the right and who was in the wrong. By not confronting him, you're immediately on 'their' side, not his. Now, you have a state of *war*. And in such, as the old saying goes, all is fair...
 
phlit said:
I don't see why you didn't confront 'John' when you found out. Imo, that was a mistake. Forget regulations etc - it seems the sensible thing to do. Instead, you 'grass' on him. You can't expect him to be happy about it; rightly or wrongly, and reglardless of who was in the right and who was in the wrong. By not confronting him, you're immediately on 'their' side, not his. Now, you have a state of *war*. And in such, as the old saying goes, all is fair...
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Keep in mind I am a consultant ... not an employee ... I'm not his friend, I'm loosely his co-worker. I report to my company, not the District.
 
I think the situation is sorta like this:

Xardon isn't actually employed by this school system/customer/whatever; he is a consultant. As such, any state of 'war' will be temporary. The guy CLEARLY knew he was doing something wrong; he was stealing from the employer and selling it for personal profit. I don't see why Xardon has any responsibility (or for that matter why it even makes sense) to confront this person regarding his behavior. If he had gone to this guy first and discussed it with him, it may have caused a more amicable situation between Xardon and this fellow, but that wasn't really Xardon's goal. If I see someone stealing CDs from a music store, I'm going to tell a clerk, not discuss with the guy why he has decided to steal these CDs hoping that we end up as friends.

I think it's a pretty clear-cut case, but that doesn't mean Xardon won't get screwed still.

Guy stole stuff.
Guy sold stuff for personal profit.
Guy got caught and tried (successfully?) to pass the buck.
Guy SHOULD be fired but likely won't.

Xardon, I hope you don't get screwed by this, but I think it's a question of business ethics... you became a whistle blower and while I (and some others will agree I'm sure) think you did what was right, often whistle blowers are the one who end up paying for what they do. Granted, usually 'whistle blower' is used to describe someone who tells an outside entity (the law) about something going on in a company, but I think the tag still fits. I hope things end up okay, but be glad you're not a permanent employee at least; if things get too bad, go find another contract.
 
Sorry, in the original post you said co-worker, so I went by that. Still though, I'd have approached 'John' about it first, even if the outcome wouldn't have changed at all.

When they showed this to me, being a consultant, I had to notify my company that I was shown this information. Now that I was made aware of the issue, my company needed to know so they can protect themselves. I submitted a report to them of my findings, at which point, they informed me that I need to bring this to the District's attention immediately.
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This is what I found 'weird', or rather, it didn't sit well with me. Saying 'I had to notify...' - screw the rules. It's people that are important. People are what will turn around and bite you in the ass. People are what make life worth living. I'd say your actions lacked 'people skills'. I'm not saying what he did, or is doing, or the way he 'got away with it', is right. I'm just saying, maybe there's a lesson to be learned. Always look on the positive side of things....
 
calaran said:
a)I don't see why Xardon has any responsibility (or for that matter why it even makes sense) to confront this person regarding his behavior.

b)If he had gone to this guy first and discussed it with him, it may have caused a more amicable situation between Xardon and this fellow, but that wasn't really Xardon's goal.

c)If I see someone stealing CDs from a music store, I'm going to tell a clerk, not discuss with the guy why he has decided to steal these CDs hoping that we end up as friends.

d)you became a whistle blower and while I (and some others will agree I'm sure) think you did what was right, often whistle blowers are the one who end up paying for what they do.
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re a)
If there is a responsibility (I didn't use the word), it is to Xardon himself, to make/ensure the situation turns out well for him.
re b)
Xardon's goal was just to follow the 'letter of the law' - it seems to me. He could have followed the 'spirit of the law', resulting in the guy possibly ceasing his wrongdoing and in no ill-effects to Xardon. Also, in saving time and effort on the parts of lots of people. Maybe not, of course. To be in an amicable situation with the guy would, however, have avoided Xardon's problem, it seems. Again, maybe not. But, this way there was nothing to lose and a lot to gain.
re c)
I understand this, but sooo strongly disagree it's unimaginable. It's a social problem. If we all discussed these things with eachother, the world would be so much the better for it. Imo, naturally. In practise, and individual situations, it might seem 'stupid'. But that's neither here nor there.
re d)
Noone likes a whistle blower. Generally speaking. At least, that's my experience. This is why they end up 'paying' for it. It comes back to my earlier point about 'people skills' etc. If you can attempt to resolve a situation without being a whistle blower (speaking of this example), it seems to be 'sensible' for yourself, as well as potentially lots of other people.
The 'right' or 'wrong' of a situation isn't what you'll end up being judged by(not solely, at least), it's how you dealt with that situation. Means to ends and all that.

None of what I say implies 'John' did or is doing the right thing. It is, rather, about Xardon's handling of the situation, which imo is what lead to the 'unhappy' situation he finds himself in now(at least partly - or rather, he did little to avoid what has now happened). Sometimes though, you can't win.
 
Wow, this is crazy... it's pretty rare that I almost completely disagree with someone, and yet, completely respect the way in which the points were presented. Awesome points. I agree on a little of it, disagree on most of it, and I think it'll end up just coming down to a difference in world views that is likely to be unresolvable, so I won't itemize your response and attempt to argue the points. I see your side of the argument but just disagree, though you sound like a swell guy.

Cheers.
 
Reason why I had to was because my company stated we had to notify the district of the issue, if not, then my company could have been liable too. Sorry I didn't clarify that before.
 
I sorta was assuming there were liability issues that might get you fired from the company you actually work for; even if there were not, I would probably still agree with the way you handled it, but in light of those issues, I think you absolutely HAD to do what ya did.
 
Noone likes a whistle blower?

I like a thief even less. And If I were the district I damn sure wouldn't let the guy get away with it, keep his job and possibly get promoted much less let him slander the person who was in the right. It boggles my mind that they didn't shit-can the loser on the spot.

The "district" is comprised of people also, so Im wondering where are thier social skills, and common sense for that matter?

I would look for a new job.
 
Xardon said:
Reason why I had to was because my company stated we had to notify the district of the issue, if not, then my company could have been liable too. Sorry I didn't clarify that before.
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I mean't before you told your own company, but yes I understand this problem. It leaves you no choice, perhaps, except to make yourself liable. (Imo, it could be considered 'brave' - there are ways to break the rules in good ways and bad ways - this should go without saying - that your job may be at risk because of breaking the rules, and what this means for 'your life', is another issue.)

jeremiahlogan said:
a) Noone likes a whistle blower?

b)I like a thief even less.

c)And If I were the district I damn sure wouldn't let the guy get away with it, keep his job and possibly get promoted much less let him slander the person who was in the right. It boggles my mind that they didn't shit-can the loser on the spot.

d)The "district" is comprised of people also, so Im wondering where are thier social skills, and common sense for that matter?
Click to expand...

re a)
Seems to be the case. It explains firstly why Xardon got the response he did, and secondly why others haven't stood up for him (so far). This also complies with my general experiences and personal feelings. It is, also, merely an opinion. (I know of no world-wide survey :D)

b)Most people don't like thieves. Robin Hood was, however, remarkably popular. I wouldn't say this was a 'rule' you can imply is universal.

c)'If I was King of the World' is nice theorising... But we're dealing with reality. Idealism is dead. Not to mention rediculous. Imo at least. Perhaps read some Nietzsche, if you're interested in the topic.

d)If we were to argue for the wrongs and rights of everyone in the whole situation, it'd be a very long debate. You are right though, to an extent.

Sorry for my bulletisation, if anyone doesn't like it. It's the way I find easiest to 'debate' though. It's not meant to seem patronising or anything ;)

ps. In my view, Absolutism vs Something(Realism?) is what we have in this thread, on the most part. Interesting, but bound to end in one result: disagreement. (Unless we take the discussion to another level; and lets not:D) Being able to agree to disagree is, however, and imo, what might save the world. Otherwise, we're all doomed.
 
Technically, if I was made aware of it, and waited or even did nothing about it, then later on the state or federal government found out that he was selling district equipment that was purchased by the district with state and federal tax dollars ... now I'm an accessory because I knew about it and didn't do anything about it. Even though I didn't do anything wrong, because I didn't bring the issue up and let it continue, I'm just as much at fault ... then I lose my job and could face criminal charges. Again, that's worst case scenario.

So my question to you is ... is your job worth losing over someone elses mistakes?
 
nope. and on top of that the same scenario in my line of work would have landed me in leavenworth breaking rocks if I hadn't done anything about it. so job? no. money out of my pocket? definitely not. freedom? not no but hell no.
 
Apols in advance if this is alraeady covered, but in the UK, were I or a colleague in a similar situation, then as a consultant, we would have to report our findings to our employer.

The employer should subsequently inform the client with full details. As it is the client who employs the company, and not the consultant (who is a an employee of the company) ultimately it is down to the client as to what action they take against their own employee.

Just so long as your client is in full possession of the facts, and has acted appropriately & legally.

You may wish to inform your company that you position/authority has been compromised or undermined by the actions of the client and it's employee/thief.

You "could" inform ebay that this person has been selling stolen property, and also possibly the people he has sold it to as well.

I can sympathise when you have to work with thieving azzwipes, and their "too soft employers" have no back bone to do the right thing.



I hate thieves!

Thieves = Scumbags of the earth who should be dragged naked over fields of broken glass, have their eyeballs impaled on burning needles, then have their skin flayed from their bones before being immersed in a vat of vinegar.
 
I always wonder about things like this when I see members of our IT department loading up personal vehicles with "retired" servers and workstations.
 
I steal from my company all the time. Tools, paper, pens, heck, I even have my eye on a new fan, a compressor and a stack of that high quality industrial tape. Oh and gloves. Lots and lots of gloves.


None of it is really expensive, maybe except the compressor/fan, which is why I'm kind of only considering taking one. Everyone out there has one of those fans in their computer, though.
 
Most thefts from businesses are done by the business' own employees. I dont feel like looking up any statistics right now, but the amount of money companies lose to their own employee's every year is pretty staggering (at least in the U.S., probably similar elsewhere).

From reading this story it would seem that employers opening their eyes to what asskissing employees are actually doing may stop alot of the crime. It seems to me that this guy is a friend of the district bosses, and the bosses can't even imagine this guy being a bad person, let alone a thief.

IMO, you did the right thing. Theres absolutely no reason to worry about being friends with this guy, and if the district sides with him and hates you, they're shooting themselves in the foot and you shouldn't worry about it.
 
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