Spell 61+ suggestion

Danku

Danku

Dalayan Beginner
I wonder what would happen if spell drops were removed and placed with quest bits to hand in. Some spells are "rare" or cost 10x what the others of that level do and make specific classes pay much more for their spells.

Ex. A green papyrus sheet drops from a Minotaur in Lasanth. You turn it in to your trainer and are given one of the appropiate spells for that level. Green being 61. Spell you get is random, but cannot be repeated. So if you got the 61 root spell, you will not be given another one.

Sheets would be droppable, same as spells. Only real change here is that all spells become equal and you do not have to rely on a huge stroke of luck to get the spells you need.
 
Idk if I agree with every 61+ spell being 'quested' in this manner, but I have been thinking that reimplementing the Research skill in someway would be pretty sweet.
 
IDK if i agree w/ having any spells quested...Of course some spells are gona be way over priced, Vessel of Athuna is a very powerful spell, it would be ridiculous to buy it for 500p. The fact that some spells sell for alot more is the nature of a player based economy, some spells are just more crucial then others
 
Keeping dropped spells but lowering the drop rate a bit and introducing a research system that doesn't equate so much with a tradeskill as it was on live would be cool.
 
If the research sheets were droppable, this would cause the price of that research material to go above the average price for spells because it "could" be a good one. Look at what happened when they did this with Relic spells... the scrolls went to 10k each instead of being able to get a good deal on the ones that were in surplus. While you might end up paying less for those super-useful spells, you'd pay a lot more for all the much less useful spells in the process.

If the research sheets were no drop, it would take much longer to get all of your spells, and some folks would be denied access to the upper end (lvl 65 spells) due to their play styles since they no longer had a chance at buying surplus raid drops.
 
Yeah, the current system as it stands allows casual players that never see most of the content that drops these spells to obtain them anyhow. Given that Relics are considered "raid" spells, I wouldn't want to force the REST of level 65 (and some 64) spells into that category as well.

I'd also love to see a research ability, but instead of creating spells, I would prefer it create single use spell scrolls usable by all classes.
 
Allielyn said:
Yeah, the current system as it stands allows casual players that never see most of the content that drops these spells to obtain them anyhow. Given that Relics are considered "raid" spells, I wouldn't want to force the REST of level 65 (and some 64) spells into that category as well.

I'd also love to see a research ability, but instead of creating spells, I would prefer it create single use spell scrolls usable by all classes.
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In my original suggestion, I was not including Ancient or Relics which already work on a similar system.

By having some single turn in item, you are not creating a huge complicated quest but it would make all spells equal.

You would not be paying 4k+ for some spells and 500 for others in the same level. In my eyes, it would seem this would level the playing field for all classes is all. Clerics, Paladins, Pet classes, Rangers all take a serious hit for some spells. Another benefit is that these drops can be individual and each level of spell can be placed on appropiate creatures.

Example: The ghosts in First Ruins are tougher than the Mino's in Lasanth, so they would drop a higher level spell. The lizard looking guys deeper than the ghosts in first ruins are tougher than the ghosts so they would drop a higher level spell. So the Minotaurs could drop level 61, the ghosts level 62 and the lizard guys level 63.

I think this would encourage progression of a character and reduce the amount of plat farming needed for spells. You would have 2 options for spells. Target a specific level of creature or buy the turn in item from other players. As it stands, you have to kill and kill and kill and hope for the right spell.

As for making one shot spell scrolls usable by anyone, you are then creating what could be the most unbalanced thing in game. Each class is balanced as well as they can make them and adding spells to a warrior, rogue, monk would throw that off. Who wouldn't want to carry 3-4 scrolls of a major wizzy nuke?
 
No, what you're proposing is that these spells never be available to the casual 65 player that can't kill things in FR but can farm money - therefore making them more "raid like" and less "group like" - just like Ancients and Relics.

Spells already drop from those mobs that you mentioned. If you kill them and don't get the spells that you want, then sell the spell you got and buy the spell you need.

Make no mistake, if drop rates remained static and this change went in, getting your 61-65 spells would be much more time consuming.
 
How so? If you have 5 spells in a level, you need 5 turn in items in what I described. You do not need to farm XX spells and sell them to get your spell. No spells are therefore rare, except ancients and relics.
 
64 and 65 spells are already rare. Particularly 65 spells.

Under the current system, if you don't have the time/energy to make it in a raid guild, and have sub-par gear for a normal 65, you still have a chance of getting those 64-65 spells. Under your proposed changes, you wouldn't - because an undergeared 65 character CAN farm money, but CANNOT farm these spells. These are the people you'll really be hurting in the long run, and since we've already got spells for raiding characters set aside I see no reason to make the rest of them as such.

In addition, spells are currently more common than they would be under the changes, due to the fact that they're droppable. Under your proposed changes, any group that gets these spell scrolls that doesn't need them - destroys them.
 
Allielyn said:
64 and 65 spells are already rare. Particularly 65 spells.

Under the current system, if you don't have the time/energy to make it in a raid guild, and have sub-par gear for a normal 65, you still have a chance of getting those 64-65 spells. Under your proposed changes, you wouldn't - because an undergeared 65 character CAN farm money, but CANNOT farm these spells. These are the people you'll really be hurting in the long run, and since we've already got spells for raiding characters set aside I see no reason to make the rest of them as such.

In addition, spells are currently more common than they would be under the changes, due to the fact that they're droppable. Under your proposed changes, any group that gets these spell scrolls that doesn't need them - destroys them.
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Pretty much. I see where you're coming from Danku, but at the same time it would eliminate the spell market and take the spells out of the game for people who can't farm. It's a good idea on paper, not so good in practice.
 
Let's be real here. All spells lv61 and up are "rare." There are certain areas in zones they begin dropping(lv 61 spells) like in MieC or FG. The mobs they begin dropping from are moderately hard to your basic leveled and geared group(let's say lv60+ with tier 1 or 2 raid gear or less.) Then there's the drop rate which isn't uberly great and imo isn't any better or worse than lv65 spells. If there really is much of a difference I sure haven't seen it. If they really are sooo rare to drop then the RNG has been in my favor for damn sure. Anywho the lower level mobs are just killed a lot more often exp speaking and why they are everywhere to be found all the way up to lv63 spells. 64 and 65 aren't so common.. because it's not common for exp groups to exp on things that hard for those spell drops. lv64-65 spells are often found during raids and depending whether or not people in raid need, you will see them pop up for sale. Then there's the select few on the server who can farm them up as a duo or a group.

Anyway, the point is.. you can either go farm up 3, 4, 5k whatever you need to buy spells in at most one week's time(hell, let's say one month to be really stretching worst case and if you're an enc perhaps) if you aren't trying to farm Blackburrow, OR you can bug Wiz to make this change, and spend who knows how long, 2 or 3 or 5 months trying to get rare spell drops from mobs(of which you have to compete with others for it)to go turn in for one of your 20-25 lv61-65 spells you need. Seriously, which way would you rather go? Perhaps change the drop rate so the spells drop more often? Well then why not just bypass all the pain in the butt coding to make this change and just make current spells drop more often? Far easier to do I would think. Either way I think things are perfectly fine as is. I mean no one enjoys tossing plat out the window for their lv61-65 spells but it's just.. easier. It's easier than turning them into a questathon and it's an income of sorts for people. I like to think that's a good thing economy wise. I also like to think you can judge a person by whether or not they have their spells.. meaning are they lazy or are they serious and want to get stuff done. This comes in handy when recruiting imo. I want to know if the person in question is motivated to play/raid or looking for freebies.

I don't know. Just say no to questing spells besides your ancients, relics, archiacs and rituals.

:hmph:

If the research sheets were droppable, this would cause the price of that research material to go above the average price for spells because it "could" be a good one. Look at what happened when they did this with Relic spells... the scrolls went to 10k each instead of being able to get a good deal on the ones that were in surplus. While you might end up paying less for those super-useful spells, you'd pay a lot more for all the much less useful spells in the process.

If the research sheets were no drop, it would take much longer to get all of your spells, and some folks would be denied access to the upper end (lvl 65 spells) due to their play styles since they no longer had a chance at buying surplus raid drops.
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This pretty much covers the spells still being droppable. 3-5k for example, sound good for those lv65 spell scrolls that -could- be a vessel of althuna or focus of soul? It is if you're a clr or shm and get those spells. Let's say it's just that high of a price because lv65 spells are the most rare spells to see for sale in the market. They certainly will not sell for 500p or even 1k, if drop rates were the same anywho. I say no thanks to paying 5k for a lv65 SK spell but that's just me I guess. I'm not sure there's much point in discussing droppable spell quest scrolls anyway. I am pretty sure if there was ever a change to how you obtain 61-65 spells, it would surely include no drop status along with it.

So in closing, what would happen? It'd be a pain in the butt to get your 61-65 spells and everyone will be willing to donate to have it changed back, imho(hey there's an idea..)
 
I think a few people missed the point that quest turn ins for spells would be droppable under this idea. And the same people getting the 64-65 spells would be the same ones getting the quest items. And the spell market would not be trashed, but all spells would be even. An equilibrium would be found in the market because the paladins wanting SSS or Vessel of Althuna will be willing to pay a little more while some classes do not get super spells would not.

Another benefit would be that if there is a sudden surge in the #'s of some class, it would not matter.

In any case, idea is out there. If nothing else, I think this has been a prodcutive conversation with alot of good points.
 
Danku said:
I think a few people missed the point that quest turn ins for spells would be droppable under this idea. And the same people getting the 64-65 spells would be the same ones getting the quest items. And the spell market would not be trashed, but all spells would be even. An equilibrium would be found in the market because the paladins wanting SSS or Vessel of Althuna will be willing to pay a little more while some classes do not get super spells would not.

Another benefit would be that if there is a sudden surge in the #'s of some class, it would not matter.

In any case, idea is out there. If nothing else, I think this has been a prodcutive conversation with alot of good points.
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If this was the case i would expect to be selling the quest piece for 700+. Think about RHLS quest items, they sell for 300-500 all the way up to 1k depending on the piece and the person selling it...now what does the RHLS sell for? 1k. I would think this would just jack up prices across the board, becuase you just might get that uber rare spell on the turn in. This would especialy suck because all us hybrid classes have rock bottom spell prices and we would have to be paying for skyrocketing prices just becuase this same turn in could be a Vessel of Athuna or any other solid caster spell. Just keep farming Elds until your blue in the face and fat in the pockets and go buy that spell. BTW, most casters don't get their rare spell until the raid game or hours apon hours of farming. (WTB 65 Ranger Quiver spell!!) I would be pretty upset if this got changed.
 
The way the spells are now isn't bad, not great but not bad. I am sadden that I still havn't gotten all of my spells, mainly from not wanting to drop the Cash that the spell seems to be going for.

However what others have said it correct, if you put a in generic spell drop turn in, its going to jack the over all price of spells up, not keep them down. The only way I could see it not jacking prices up is if what could drop the spell drops was lower in level then currently, or much much more common.

Ether of theses case risk flooding the market and plumiting the prices of spells (not something anyone wants).

However... I think it might be intersting to put in a few quested spells or sorts. Obviously not the relic/raid style ones, but I could see a few of the 61-65 spells being quest spells. But only like 1-3 throw 61-65 that would be questable.
 
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