Some Thoughts.

D

Didge

Dalayan Beginner
Obsidian Shard Mountains should now be a *much* better zone to hunt in at levels 8-20
Wiz

Ok, I have a few suggests for OSM for the 8-12

OSM while having a nice level range of mobs is completely barren of merchants or banks. I don't know if NewPorters can roll into Grobb or Oggok for their buy/sale/banking needs but I'm assuming they can't. If they can half my OSM needs just a little more help is half-worthless. :)

Other then that considering I've seen nobody in there vs the cluster of folks I see in BB and Warrens I would have thought OSM deserved at least a 5% if not 10% zone bonus.. ( heck newporters have to jog through five zones just to get there vs 2 for BB and a boat ride plus 2 zones for Warrens )

Next up is "Cash Cow's vs I wouldn’t shank ya with a rusty dagger."

Gnolls generally drop Silver along with a stick that sales for 8 silver.

Kobolds generally drop copper and a large sack of nothing. ( I'll admit latter on Kobolds start paying the rent but at first they can't afford to pay attention )

Beetles in OSM: Some food stamps and their broken dreams.

I hope this didn’t come off as a rant or anything. The Game isn't broken nor is anybody on staff a pack of jackals. I just think OSM could be a awesome zone of grouping goodness that sadly isn't as of now :(

On Enchanters.

We all know the role of the average enchanter is to get everybody killed. This was the way of things on Live and S.O.D. carries on this fine tradition with respect and honor.

All or nothing Nukes: Chanters as we know are second only to wizards in nuking goodness (ok fine I guess Mages can nuke too ) but I always thought it was a tad unfair that chanters don't get to do at least partial damage on a resist. Is their any chance this could get looked at and changed?

The Gimp: Chanters of course have no real room to whine about their pet’s here vs Live. But I really never understood the logic that enchanters had to have gimpy pets. On Live it was because they could ya know.. Haste and... well they could look like a other races... Well to be honest I haven't heard a good argument other then the Mages/Necro's would cry.

So I'm wondering would it break the game if Enchanter pets were at least on par with Necro's. Considering Enchanters 1 Dot spell and Lame duck nuke won't come even close to the DPS of a Necro/Mage nor without the some of the nifty utility spells such as Feign death I can't see Enchanters really leading the way as a pet class. But it would be nice to see Fluffy do more then be a speed bump to a green.

Enchanters here seemingly have more limitations then their live cousins.

Mana Regen is of no real use thanks to super med.

Haste at the beginning is of limited value and near the high end.. only a tad more so.

Illusions are neat toys..but toy's none the less.

Runes are nice so I can't cry there.

Charms have built in protections to keep them from being over powered. As such the risk vs reward of using them is vastly less ( But I'll admit to reaching here since I don't charm solo )

Enchanters slow for less then I believe even Beastlords.

Our Debuffs consist of Tash.. which.. means not a whole lot outside of are own spells. ( yeah I know we have the disempower line.. but short of parsing I doubt most will ever really note a huge difference in mob dps by using it )

So what I’m driving at is not a complete rehash of the Enchanter class from ground Zero. I doubt anybody on Staff has the time or ability to just make Enchanter 2.0 SoD gold version. But I think the poor enchanter could use some pick me ups especially at the low end where life is twice as tough.

So to just out and say it.

My hope for chanters is that they could get a slight upgrade on Pet HP's, Damage Migation and DPS. Even upgraded compared to live there still speed bumps.

An upgrade to nuke damage and add in partial resist's instead of All or nothing.

I'd love to hear what the rest of the community has to say about this. I'm not looking to see this post become a "Woe as me" thread or endless banter about why Rangers need more love instead of chanters. I don’t' play a high-end enchanter so I don't know if any of these complaints/suggestions hold water in the 60+ Range.

In closing, thank you all on staff for making this game available to us.

D.
 
Didge said:
I don’t' play a high-end enchanter so I don't know if any of these complaints/suggestions hold water in the 60+ Range.
Click to expand...

They don't.

Enchanters have a few issues in the 60+ range but none as broad as you described.
 
Aren't your deficiencies compared to Necros and Mages compensated by the fact that you have by far the best crowd controlling abilities?

You also have the best Haste/Mana spells which are still useful at high-end even with the new mana-regen. About Slows, everyone has about the same Slow on SOD. I don't think anything is as bad as you describe, but for the specific issues I would talk to more veteran Enchanters.
 
Comparing SOD to LIVE is a bad thing.. its not the same game.

That said, Enchanters on Live were godly so if thier not as poweful as they were on live, its probley for a good reason.
 
I think if classes get nerfed there should be some compensation no matter how powerfull they were in live. Losing the mana regen and charm abilities (or having them lessoned) is a big thing to enc. But in SOD their pets are more powerful. I have played with a few enchanters, all low levels, and their pets seem better. They piss mobs off and get the enchanter killed more then anything but they aren't bad. I haven't played an enchanter yet so my question would be to those that have. Have the enchanters been nerfed or have they lost some and gained others?
 
Enchanters slow for less then I believe even Beastlords
Click to expand...
I think thats not true.

Let me try to explain my opinion (With my poor english)

My enchanter is lvl 44.
I played a high lvl enchanter at live.

The big issue for me with my enchanter at SoD, is the mana regen. When you are in combat u can not really notice the mana regen, at least for now with my clarity.
That is a big "nerf" for us i think, since mana maker was our primary role along with CC.

CC is cool i think, mezzs working great (At least for me). No troubles with that, mobs resist alot, but i finally always get them.

My pets are great. They are very useful and i always have mine up. Not as a tank, thats for sure, because they die sooo fast... But at least they help us with their dps, and now we can command them. Thats great.
Anyway they need more HPs.. not as many as the ncro/mage ones, but they need more, our pets die very very fast (with slowed mobs)

Charm killing is very risky. I sometimes solo and use charm, but i always finally die. Its a very stressy way to kill. But i can live with that.

Illusions are great, i have tons of fun casting them on my pet.

As i said in another post, i dont like our starfalls. While shammys as an example get free slow, with only get a long time recast mana sieve.
It would be great if its effect would be Haste, because when you are in group, giving haste is a big issue for me, since it steal a lot of mana from my mana pool.


Thats another bad point, buff duration is so short...
I must give haste, clarity, int/wis/cha buffs etc etc to all the group, and they fade soooo fast....
Im always giving something to someone, and that stress me because i must tash, slow, mezz etc etc the mobs, and sometimes i feel crazy.



This is my opinion only; I dont know if they can (or want) repair our broken ability to give mana regen in combat.
But at least, if they can give more duration for our buffs, that would be great.
If you ask me if i feel bad about my class, ill say no.. because i always loved chantys.
But with this mana regen thing, we lost alot. Pets dont compensate us, since they have very low hps.

Anyway, i still love my chanter and i will still play it :)

Ps: Yes maybe at 65 u dont have those issues.
Well as i said thats my opinion, still alot of lvls to reach 65 for me. The mine is a little guild, but we try to raid and do things too.
 
Shaman Starfall Earring was nerfed, to 8x the old cast time. (About 2x as long to cast as the regular spell, so it's almost never used now after the levels you get it.)
 
Enc gets 2 very nice spells ( or aas ? ) the first one you cast you got 5 secs ? of all landing spells critts and they got the same version for melee dmg also <3

Whit thoose spells (or AAs ) i see many raid mobs dropps their hps very fast.

whit 3 enchaters in a raid you have 3 melee critt times and 3 spell critt times whitch makes ALOT more dmg so your poor mana less clerics dont need to go oom in the fight =)


The big issue for me with my enchanter at SoD, is the mana regen
Click to expand...

So ? all other classes have the same problem. As they who have mana.

So JB ( crack ) Enlightment ( mana buff ) charisma ( + cha ) haste and slow abel to mezz and you nuke pretty good.

Well Enc have a big role in the game and therefor we love em.

And if u feel lacking the mana just say to your grp to stfu and let me med =P
 
All of that are things i already know...

Please take a look to my post, im asking for hps for my pet, (or at least less recast time for it, since it dies so easy), and a little more duration for our buffs (or at least low lvl buffs).
Its annoying to cast a buff on ur mates again, and again and again because it fades so fast (And im not talking about boon of the goraud) :)
 
Where to begin...

Enchanter pets aren't made to tank. You can charm and have a MUCH better pet than any of the other pet classes. Haste, useless? No way. Enchanters are also by far the best crowd control, which makes them almost essential for a hard (relative to your group's abilities) dungeon crawl.

eguna said:
Its annoying to cast a buff on ur mates again, and again and again because it fades so fast (And im not talking about boon of the goraud) :)
Click to expand...

I think you may have picked the wrong class to play. Don't try a shaman or cleric either. =P
 
I am not talking about other classes, and not saying anyone if he has choosed a wrong class or not, so please dont do that with me.
I know how my enchanter works, and what are the differences with live, and i told it, because we were talking just about it; just giving my point of view here.

Nothing more to say, thx.
 
re

To GuiardoTuneweaver

Being rude and condescending in this discussion doesn’t make you right. If you wish to tell us your thoughts could you please find a more constructive way to do so.

As for your comments.

"Enchanter pets are not made to tank" This was well established in my post and a few others. We know this and I ( and presumably a few others folks ) would like to see this fixed since I've yet to hear one good reason why their so gimpy. It would neither break the game or usurp any other class's if Chanter pets could at least be something other then a speed bump for mobs.

“You can charm.” Once again already established in earlier posts. However being able to charm a mob isn't justification for a gimp pet, gimp nukes or gimp dots. Charm has been managed here to not give the chanter an undue amount of power but enough power to justify the increased risk of having not 1 but possibly 2+ mobs very upset with you. Also Charm is not an ability that is left soly to the enchanter.. Other class's can charm just as well within their own fields and Bards equal Chanters in this ability.

"Haste Useless?" I never said it was useless but I continue to say it is of "Limited" use to low end players and for high end isn't the sum total reason to have a chanter around. Not to mention a number of other class’s can haste well enough that you'd really need a combat log and some interest in math to note a difference.

"Chanters are the best at crowd control." A few issues pop up here.

1. I'm not contesting this in the sense that CC needs a revamp. Matter of fact I think its just fine.

2. Once again not justification for Gimp nukes/dots/pet.

3. Also another skill that other class's can do just fine.. not to mention in the low end ( which is where I'm aiming to help enchanters ) Root parking is practically as effect in most case's if not more so then a 30 second mez.

To Latten

The Big role of enchanters boils down to CC and that’s it.

Haste is not the sum total of being an Enchanter or even close.. It’s one buff that’s useful but not justification for my above points.

Clarity line is pretty much dead.. Super med removes ( thankfully ) the dire need for mana buffs.

Cha Buff means a lot more here then live.. But who rolls up a Chanter for that not to mention the Cha buff is seen in other classes.

To eguna

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

To Kirin Folken

You had no comments or suggestions that tied into the original post, however I’d be happy to debate Live chanter vs SoD chanter on a different thread with you.

To Maimai

I’d really love to hear what the issues a 65 chanter faces and what AA’s seem like they need tweaking ect.

In review, what I asked Staff to look at was this.

Chanter pet review and hopefully a little help here.

Change Chanter nukes from All or nothing to being able to be partially resisted.

In closeing.

If nothing changed at all.. I wouldn’t be crying that Chanters are beyond hope ect. These are some suggestions I have that I think would benefit the low end Enchanter, its not huge or game altering but would be nice and make the long journey to 65 just a little more enjoyable.

D.
 
You would have been better served to make this thread in the Sug/req forum.

Most of your points have already been covered by others--I'd just point out that enchanters seem to have the worst mana regen, which doesn't make sense because we're supposed to be the masters of it, but you should also consider that pound for pound we spend less than other classes do, and wandering mind / ToT are hardly slouches--you just have to work a little to get the benifit.
 
Wow a personal invite to chat :)

I am no enchanter experent, having only played one till 14.

I did group with a enchanter buddy all the way throw 60s

From what I saw him able to do made my paladin feel like a low level pet. Watching him stop 5 mobs in their tracks, single handly charming and killing all 5. On raids useing very high level mobs charm to destroy other mobs. Mana reg coming out of our.. umm.. butts :) Good Nukes, Good Debuffs, Good Slows, Good Haste, Great craftsmen (jewlery) Illusions etc.

As the whole Enchanters were massive.
 
Blah hit enter with out finishing.

In closeing:)

If youve played a high level enchanter you have more first hand experience them me, so no real reason to argue what what I have seen vs what you have played. I just feel Wiz and the rest know what thier doing, but who knows. Maybe they will agree with you.
 
To Thinkmeats

Ya know at first I was about to cook up some fancy reason why this post deserved to be here vs S/R.. but honestly.

Your right :eek:

I figure if the Staff reads this and opts to move it that would be great otherwise I guess its stuck here :( however I'll defently keep that in mind for my next great suggestion. :)


Re Kirin Folken

Aye, on live at least outside of the PoP I felt like a god... anything in tier 3 or higher thou espically in GoD I felt like Sony's bastard child that honeslty needed to be put down for thier own good.

"Enter long drawn out whine that suggests I need to get a life"

Thanks everbody for comments and such..

D.
 
In most of your argument it seems to be a "I want chanters to be better at this this this and oh yeah this" kind of thing. Let alone kind of decrying their cc abilities, which are of course the best in the game (before its mentioned, no necro ghetto mez is alright, but it's no substitute). I havent ever...ever been in a group that's had an a slot open where a chanter wasn't welcome, also a benefit. As far as mana regen goes the whole line is still incredibly useful. For example, a chanter was nice enough to kei ais the other day=> ais goes to kedge. So i ran lom but pulls kept coming. So i do what I usually do and swap over to my quicknuke (scars of sigil, my absolute favorite at 175 mana and a 2sec casttime) now my ft isnt the best but I managed to nuke damm near constantly on 3 mobs w/that, sat for a minute to get like 40 then did it again, kei + my ever so happy 1ft+ elemental form(until late last night now i have more! :) ) was making me regen mana close to as fast as I was using it. If there's someone who doesnt want that...well I sure havent met them. Also there are alot of things in the game which are very difficult to take w/out a chanter..but with one? it's a breeze, no pun intended.

Lets not overlook chanter haste either, which is always a blessing as well for numerous reasons. I'm not sure how much haste it is, but from observation it sure provided me alot of skillups on piercing yesterday :) . Nor lets not forget the only class that slows better than a chanter is a shammy, and its not that huge of a difference w/out the shammy having the epic mask (it is one but i think its only like a 10% difference not like 20%).

Curses too are immeasurable handy. The few times I've seen them used, only on a boss fight in dfs did the chanter even get to use striking and rending on the same mob lol. The hp's of the mob simply went down too fast to use both on the others. And everything crits for a short amount of time is nothing to laugh at. Not to mention thats when all mage's should click the host of the elements button, immediately followed by the frenzied burnout button.

Chanter dps I dont really think needs all that much of an upgrade. If they have better dps than mages it just makes them a way better class in nigh every respect and would pretty much make mages a gimp wizzy w/a disposable meatshield and ds.
Not to mention full damage or partial resist no full resist would just be completely ridiculous. Chanter's already get a very very happy cha buff. Though unless im very mistaken mage nukes beat the ass off chanter nukes. Not sure b/c my chanter is still a lowbie.

Tash...well I'm not the hugest fan of tash as a laaarge portion of mage nukes are firebased, and unless im very mistaken tash doesnt do anything for that. However I still have magic based nukes and rains w/the 64 mage nuke being magic based and the 60 maelstrom of electricity also being magic based. Yeah sure I like the malo line better as it hits all of the mobs resists instead of just magic.

Never mind the fact that an incredibly useful tradeskill is pretty much chanter only as well..(well other classes can do it, but it doesnt make a whole hell of alot of sense unless you bot a chanter for the enchant bars variety of spells.)
 
If I posted some of the best things Maimai could do in a positive light they'd probably get nerfed, really don't think enchanters need any of the core upgrades mentioned in this thread
 
I played a level 67 Enc with over 300 AAs on Live for several years. I currently have a level 61 Enc on SoD with about 8 AAs. I haven't noticed any huge differences between Live & SoD for Encs. Some places/mobs are always better for Enchanters. For example, if you have casting type mobs, mez is better than rooting. Plus our nukes can do a fair amount of damage. Pets are about the same as Live. Enchanters on SoD are fine just the way they are. I wouldn't change a thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom