Sky darkener

Gargate

Dalayan Elder
Would be much appreciated if they could be none lore, and the proc rate of what summons them (darken skies) to be increased or made into a clickable spell.

The tedium of having to fletch quivers, carry several quiver types or being required to spend plat just to use the main part of playing a ranger has never been popular among those that main them. Knowing that will probably never change.

That said shadowstorm comes from a fairly higher end quest and would be (at least to me) be pretty reasonable to be able to have more than 1 stack.

Player made quivers have the same dmg potential if you match the body types, are accessible to even low end players.

Sky darkener, same dmg potential as player made arrows but work in general, doesnt require the ranger to tediously fletch quivers or spend plat to do their main source of damage, is only accessible to those that can complete tear of elael, require a bit of melee farming to summon.

Shrug it will probably get shot down but making them none lore and uping darken skies proc rate or made a clickable spell would be amazing.

Or endless quiver but that wont happen.

Edit: I was reading through some older posts and realized myself (completely forgot) and other rangers have suggested/requested these changes before and the answer was a flat no.

That said as someone else mentioned it's a different set of dev's and a different way of doing things these days so hopefully?
 
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So you have a tedious and somewhat expensive way to get arrows specific to a body type. And then you have a probably less tedious and definitely cheaper to make arrows (once you finished the quest) that come free of charge and work on every body type. And you ask for the less tedious to make cost free arrows to be made less tedious to acquire, and in greater quantity, ideally with 0 effort (clicky) after the initial quest? With no reason given other then "it's too tedious"?

Do I get your reasoning right here?
 
I dont see a problem with either increasing the proc rate, or increasing the number of arrows per proc, but keeping them lore. But im no ranger so idk
 
I could be very wrong about all of this but, to my knowledge Shadowstorm was originally intended to summon a full stack of lore arrows. Previous client limitations prevented this when the quest was made.
I, along with several others, have suggested this in the past like you pointed out and not much has changed with it.

As much as you might not want to, you kinda have to look at it from Nwaij's perspective too. Considering a complete replacement to Fletching gets rid of an entire tradeskill - because who besides Rangers are genuinely seeking the top bane arrows?
It'd be a neat idea as a clicky or spell similar to the Mage spell which has a few hour cooldown, but again there's not a really fair alternative to it.
I've even suggested summoning one individual non-lore arrow, so you could go and farm a few stacks before getting involved in anything but same issue.
 
So you have a tedious and somewhat expensive way to get arrows specific to a body type. And then you have a probably less tedious and definitely cheaper to make arrows (once you finished the quest) that come free of charge and work on every body type. And you ask for the less tedious to make cost free arrows to be made less tedious to acquire, and in greater quantity, ideally with 0 effort (clicky) after the initial quest? With no reason given other then "it's too tedious"?

Do I get your reasoning right here?


Well the quest is one and done so...
If the proc rate was increased and the arrows not lore (and it actually summoned a full stack like it's supposed to) a high level ranger could have good arrows to last the night in minutes IF they are at a point they can complete the quest. Which isn't exactly easy and would maintain a use for the trade skill quivers while giving a worth while reward to those that do the quest.

Or make them none lore and turn it into a clicky (which I know is the least likely but the most practical) the refresh timer could be set to the rate of time it would take for the melee proc to generate a stack of arrows (if it actually worked as intended meaning stack per proc). This would also be really reasonable.

As it stands sky darkeners are little more than a novelty item, one stack of general use arrows IF they melee first at one arrow per proc and it barely procs. So really kinda pointless, might as well change the proc to some sort of spell damage or heal.


Trade skill arrows are available to any low end player willing to punish themselves through trade skills or they can buy them at 500pp per quiver, I've been back very casual for not even a week and already burnt about 2k on quivers.
To me the trade off seems reasonable.

Another solution would be to implement endless quiver BUT make all arrows no rent, have darken skies summon 1 arrow and change trade skilled quivers to summon only 1 arrow with 25 clicks per quiver. This would make the proc (or hopefully clicky) actually not useless and maintain the "market" of quivers and the usefulness of the fletching skill, again only players able to finish the quest would have the sword so it doesn't impact anyone below what T10?. The argument for protecting the market would make more sense if the game had a population like back when I first started 400-500~ but over the last few years I've popped in from time to time and never seen it over 90~ logged in and who knows how many of those were boxed and how few were actual ranger mains. As is the market is what maybe 10-15 people probably less?

I found it kinda funny though, I haven't played really in years, barely been back and while completely forgetting all previous posts on the subject came to the quick conclusions that the forced reliance on trade skills to perform a primary role of one class is silly. I can't really think of other games out there that do this anymore or ammo requirements in an mmorpg at all. There's even recent posts about players still wanting changes to the quivers because it's still not popular among the player base and with a limited server population no real market almost requiring Ranger main's to sink mind numbing hours into fletching and even more into farming parts to make the special arrows which then requires them to juggle bank and bag space.

Also if anyone questions my knowledge of or experience with trade skills:
Gargate:
Blacksmith 250
Brewing 170
Fletching 250 (twice, once before and once after the fletching revamp)
Mining 250
Pottery 80

Trothkin: my shaman
fishing 250
mining 250

Digmo: even though doesn't show on fomelo for some reason
mining 250 specialized for deep metal minning

Shrug I don't really expect anything to change to be honest, one can hope though, and it's really not about myself (granted I would benefit) but trying to bring QoL improvements that years later are still an issue with the players.
 
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I dont see a problem with either increasing the proc rate, or increasing the number of arrows per proc, but keeping them lore. But im no ranger so idk

Being lore is what makes their existence pointless.

I have a fairly slow bow Acid Tongue, I go through about 4-7 stacks of arrows in 3 hours of casual solo play.

Back when I played actively I went through a quiver every two days.

A ranger to do comparable dps to other dps classes has no option but to sink hours upon hours into fleching and farming or spend 500pp every couple of days. Also the only class reliant on a tradeskill to do its main job.

Yes theres alternatives like arrow making rig but those are 1 damage, to do comparable dps 12 damage bane tradeskill made arrows are the only option.
 
I could be very wrong about all of this but, to my knowledge Shadowstorm was originally intended to summon a full stack of lore arrows.

This isn't true. The main problem with this weapon has always been that if you have the arrows in equipped ammo you can no longer add to the stack so the proc stops doing anything. Having said that summon arrows were intentionally changed during the fletching revamp to not really be a viable alternative to crafting.
 
This isn't true. The main problem with this weapon has always been that if you have the arrows in equipped ammo you can no longer add to the stack so the proc stops doing anything. Having said that summon arrows were intentionally changed during the fletching revamp to not really be a viable alternative to crafting.

I haven't tested it yet but is auto combined and the recipe book at least a thing again?

I know the old client couldn't do it but I was a beta tester for a bit in 2.5 and it worked there.

As annoying as the whole tradeskill reliance thing goes that at least would be huge.

Lastly I've heard a lot about you Marza and have played a fair amount of your content . Much respect.
 
I play a ranger and I think the quiver system is more or less "OK" at best
Pop onto live, use endless quiver for a few days and not need more than 1 arrow type.

I 100% believe the entire fletching system is silly and reliance on finite ammo in an mmorpg is extremely dated.

That said it's the system we have so I'm trying to find comprise .
 
If anything, make it so leveling up fletching isnt some stupid high number of clicks like 2k+ or something? per level? I forget the stats someone once posted, another thing you can do is make arrows stack higher than 20.

Idk what a good number would be, but 120 sounds like a good enough amount to not have to carry quivers everywhere.
 
I would agree with Tev's post as being the best solution, but for whatever reason fletching and bane damage madness seem to be here to stay...

That being said, Quiver of the Mind is already a thing, in addition to the Vah arrow rig. What about turning Sky Darkeners into essentially an upgraded version of this, like 10 damage or something so it's still worse than the 'best' 'proper' fletched arrows but doesn't totally gimp their DPS in the name of convenience?
 
I would agree with Tev's post as being the best solution, but for whatever reason fletching and bane damage madness seem to be here to stay...

That being said, Quiver of the Mind is already a thing, in addition to the Vah arrow rig. What about turning Sky Darkeners into essentially an upgraded version of this, like 10 damage or something so it's still worse than the 'best' 'proper' fletched arrows but doesn't totally gimp their DPS in the name of convenience?

Endless quiver and good general use arrows should absolutely be a thing, I agree 100%. I don't see it happening though sadly.

The biggest problem though is simple.

The ranger is the only class in order to do its main job in any comparable way to the other dps classes has a forced reliance on a finite supply of a trade skill made item.

Arrowmaking rig is 1 damage and that is the vah clicky. Its in no way viable.

Mage summoned arrows are awful, nightmare arrows were nerfed into no reason to exist other than a novelty and shadowstorm may as well proc a damage spell for all the good darken skies is in its current form.


For what ever reason the powers that be feel rangers in order to be on the same level as other dps should have to shell out pp or do arguably the worst thing in EQ, trade skills (which still costs just under 500pp to make 1 quiver) and we don't even get autocombind and have to farm all the specialty parts for bane or element, plus juggle bank and inventory space thats already at a premium due to 15 body types and if we fletch also keep space for farmed items and bank quivers. No other class has to jump through those hoops.

My point/reasoning for this post was a sliver of hope that maybe just maybe we could have some alternative thats actually worth having.

Its kinda sad though that even hoping for all parts vendor buyable and autocombine seems is too much to ask for.

On the old client not having autocombind and the recipe book was excusable because the client couldn't support it. Well the client 100% supports it now. I know because I used it in the beta.

What that means is the manual and the absolute most tedious way of doing tradeskills is being kept on purpose. Its not fun, it adds no immersion and I don't know anyone who actually likes it.

That said some viable alternative really needs to be a thing. I don't see why shadowstorm cant just be a clicky and made non-lore. The only reason given was that those that call the shots don't want an alternative to trade skilled arrows and at the same time are forcing tradeskills to function in the absolute most tedious way.

Somethings gotta give in the QoL
 
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What, the answer of "We had to walk both ways, uphill, through the snow, and without shoes. Therefore so should you." isn't a good enough answer for you? But that is the SoD way, don't you know? We can't modernize, the game was created in the 90's, we have to stay with 90's reasoning.
And then they wonder why the game has been doing a slow death spiral for years...
 
New arrows sold by fletching merchants:

Endless Arrow of the Destitute (3 damage)
Endless Arrow of the Smart Shopper (6 damage)
Endless Arrow of the Big Baller (9 damage)
Endless Arrow of the One Percenter (12 damage)

Instead of consuming arrows, they consume 1 copper, silver, gold or platinum respectively. Split shot procs and double shot stance double cost appropriately. Returning arrow does not apply.
 
What, the answer of "We had to walk both ways, uphill, through the snow, and without shoes. Therefore so should you." isn't a good enough answer for you? But that is the SoD way, don't you know? We can't modernize, the game was created in the 90's, we have to stay with 90's reasoning.
And then they wonder why the game has been doing a slow death spiral for years...

Modernization is really needed 100% agree.

I've done a ton in trade skills, killed just about every raid monster from T1-T12 prior to 2014, 5th seeker aug, runic 1/2, ton of gate necks plus murk shield and DL spear, ej banker clicky, vah as far as call to battle, vah arrow making rig, combine armor, pretty sure I was the first player to make the murk blacksmith dagger (yes before Kerolynne, I told her where the drops were) still have the original in my bank, and a crap load of other quests.

I've been there, done that but just because people did it in the past and the current system exists doesnt mean we should keep subjecting people to a very flawed system that in order to do their main job rangers are forced to endure.
 
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New arrows sold by fletching merchants:

Endless Arrow of the Destitute (3 damage)
Endless Arrow of the Smart Shopper (6 damage)
Endless Arrow of the Big Baller (9 damage)
Endless Arrow of the One Percenter (12 damage)

Instead of consuming arrows, they consume 1 copper, silver, gold or platinum respectively. Split shot procs and double shot stance double cost appropriately. Returning arrow does not apply.

That would be terribad. My bow acid tongue has 77 delay, I burn easily 6 stacks in 2 hours of lazy solo play. It would be hell for anyone who plays serious or has a fast bow.

Lets also not forget not a single other class has to pay PP in order to do the main function of their class.
 
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I wouldn't mind seeing a special vendor that will sell you some no drop trade skill combines based on recipes you've already mastered, like an apprentice. Cost per item would cost more than acquiring it by hand, but that is the price you would pay to have someone else do it. This would help ease the tediousness of all trade skills and encourage more to pick up trades in an ever shrinking market.
 
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