sine qua non

Muuss

Dalayan Beginner
Clearly enounced rulesets are what we need.
Being accused of breaking a rule when no rule has been defined doesnt make the game going forward. it leads players to boycot events, which is regretable, for me at least. Write the rules you want to be respected and place them where everybody see them, and they will be respected by the very great majority.
Communication is the basic of order. Threats and sanctions do nothing good. Avoiding to take sanctions is, and will remain the only good way to manage a population. This can e-a-s-i-l-y resolved by a few things :

- write rules and make people know about them
- never use the threat as a weapon, it leads nowhere else than to prove people how weak you are, instead, use respect and comprehensivity.
- talk to people if they break a rule.
- talk to people when you take a sanction and explain them why you took it
- update your rules when they need it
- always consider that taking a sanction is a proof of the weakness of your system, modify it to avoid new sanctions.

This is not things i read in a book. I m managing a 20.000 students population as lead system engineer, some of them are hackers, some of them try to cheat, some of them make errors, but for the biggest part, when something goes wrong, its only because they didnt knew it could be wrong. If you punish them for that, they start to break the rules each time you don't survey them if they think you consider them like cheaters and see that you're treating them that way. These are the basics.

To be honest, i m playing EQ on WR because i like the way the game is reworked, I like the way its balanced. I like the people who play on the server. I try to do my best with what i have, a very bad ISP, not enough time, a low level in english language etc etc ... I try to report bugs each time i encounter some, suggest things, i try to be online for raids, dealing with private and professional lives... etc

For now, i ll boycot events till a ruleset is clearly enumerated, even if nobody cares about that, its now clear.
I m playing during my spare times, for the fun represented by the GAME, not because i m addicted, mixing EQ and real lives, or such... if the game isnt fun, it looses immediatly all its interest, and i don't see why i should invest of my spare time in it anymore.

I know that i m not the only one who complains of how players are sometimes treated, no answer to tells or agressive answers, nowarning reboots, rude treatments and such... when this happens (even if its not each day nor each time) it seriously wastes the fun people can get of YOUR work, and, when i see the quality of what's done, I really regret it because it could be way more better again.

I certainly won't participate to any flaming/rants since i m way to old for those kind of things. Out of context quotes, insults or delibarate mis-understanding of sentences are for the people who have no arguments and attack you for the shape and not the meaning.

I hope that nobody will take that text with to much negativity. It's certainly rough, full of gramatical mistakes, but that's my point of view and i wanted it to be clearly written. I m not the kind of person that will say 'yes' because they think the boss will like them if they do. I say what i have to say.

Alexis,
Decimal on WR.
 
Let's see... the rules say:

"When you find yourself in a roleplay event or situation, you are required to stay in character in any non-private channels. This means you don't greet Lord Kaezul with "wahts ur equip" and you don't go "lol ur gay" to the Kobold General. Just try to use some common sense, how would your character react? This does not affect regular hunting/farming/strolling, just GM ran events/characters. Also note that the /ooc channel is exempt from this, but that GM RP characters will not be viewing this channel."

You were blatantly OOC on that event. Writing a 200-word essay won't save you from having fucked up.
 
Players very rarely get rude treatment unless they have cause to deserve them. I always try to be courteous and helpful, but someone knowingly breaking the rules in front of my face pisses me off. Respect goes both ways, you know.

There is an established ruleset. I suggest you go read it.
 
Can u, no need to relate the exact words, that's not important, just remind me what i said so i wont say it anymore ?

only thing i remember is :
"
/say lets group together and play as a team"
/tell nazul do the invites please
/irc im locked 15 sec at each zoneing and mobs are at my spawn point, i m in death loop
Nuralia says : no more mobs in the zone
/say mobs inc soon i guess
/say Aed, nuke the mob plz, its almost dead, i m oom
"

i am certainly forgeting something, so i d like to know what.
 
/say lets group together and play as a team
Nuralia says : no more mobs in the zone
/say mobs inc soon i guess
/say Aed, nuke the mob plz, its almost dead, i m oom

All these four were blatantly OOC, although I missed Nuralia's, or she would've made you company to potorment. I sent Naz there as well, but after he sent me a tell and I explained what he did wrong I put him back. The only reason I did it this way is because when someone has to find our their own error they learn faster than if you point it out to them a million times.

Can you imagine a fantasy book where a character suddenly says to his companions, "mobs inc soon i guess"?

That doesn't mean you have to go all "Prithee I do think that nay shall our battle yet be over, compatriots, for soon more vile beasts shall come rushing to do most glorious battle!"

Just say, "I think we have more foes to expect!" or something.
 
Make another event in the near future and I will do better ;)

Although I still don't think I deserved the rude treatment which I got.
I know it was rude because I got offended by it which made me pissed off and I don't get offended that easily. Just can't remember the exact words, but needing to argue with the police about breaking a law just isn't the way to bring justice.

You Could warn people once before they get removed from the event. That would only make you need to tell them Two times instead of millions.. and players would feel more happy to join the event again after being warned than punished right away. People react in many different ways when caught for cheating/breaking rules etc. But I know it would be that way for me. Cuz I felt really stupid to join the event again after being sent to PoT, feeling offended and stuff.

But heck, that is history now. I don't care for it anymore. I do know what I did wrong now and shall not do it again. But there Should be something you could do to not make your message in character, like putting OOC before saying something. Although, people would probably use more OOC words than IC words if that was allowed. But I don't know.

Edit: IMO, exploiting and more serious stuff should be punished right away, not using say in the wrong way/situation.

Thanks
 
robsson said:
Make another event in the near future and I will do better ;)

Although I still don't think I deserved the rude treatment which I got.
I know it was rude because I got offended by it which made me pissed off and I don't get offended that easily. Just can't remember the exact words, but needing to argue with the police about breaking a law just isn't the way to bring justice.

You Could warn people once before they get removed from the event. That would only make you need to tell them Two times instead of millions.. and players would feel more happy to join the event again after being warned than punished right away. People react in many different ways when caught for cheating/breaking rules etc. But I know it would be that way for me. Cuz I felt really stupid to join the event again after being sent to PoT, feeling offended and stuff.

But heck, that is history now. I don't care for it anymore. I do know what I did wrong now and shall not do it again. But there Should be something you could do to not make your message in character, like putting OOC before saying something. Although, people would probably use more OOC words than IC words if that was allowed. But I don't know.

Edit: IMO, exploiting and more serious stuff should be punished right away, not using say in the wrong way/situation.

Thanks

I admit, maybe sending you away instantly was not the best of things, it's just that this happens on every event, that people act like OOCing retards at first. I'm tired of telling people to shape up.
 
Ya, understood. Hmm I think Decimal's idea about shining up the most important rules was good. You should put it at tips when starting up on server or something if possible. Although I never read tips myself, so they could prolly take it as the annoying tips window which it is. Heheh
 
Well i m sorry if i broke that rule, i recognize i did it and deserved a punishment.
Tho I won't participate to events anymore because i m not able to formulate things in another way than the language i m using right now. Let's not involve Nuralia in this, i m not reporting word for word what she said.

For the other points, i still complain of your rudiness. You charmove me because i m breaking a rule, well ok, there's a rule. Just say : "Use roleplay language during events". Nobody is asking you to call us sir or use please and thanks in each sentence. Just communicate.

As an example, the same day, i asked you in IRC if i could get a move to avoid another stupid LD death from last friday's raid. I didnt even got an answer.
answer : sorry Dec, i wont do that because you should have came back

2 days before, you were speaking of debugging and i told u that 3 mobs werent acting correctly in ToFS when attacked, no answer.
answer : Report this on the forum

PVP event died because of no success, why ?
instead of asking people why it's not fun, there's a message saying : "no more PVP events if players don't show up for the next one". Well i wasnt online saturday, but i guess that nobody came since there's now a new message saying that PVP events are canceled. What's the reason ? people don't like PVP ? people don't like how PVP is handled ? People don't like shadowhaven ? people don't like to die from a wizard nuke or from a magician pet without standing a chance ?

On the first pvp event, i came because Liam asked me to come, i never liked PVP, but i came to participate. I hear some rules, like not using bolts. 1 against 1 event starts, i see ksahrn, i follow him to attack him, then suddenly dies because Nuralia casted an area nuke without even knowing that i m here, her target was Ksahrn... fun, 1 hour lost for that.
team againts team event start, this time i have a chance to cast a few nukes, and i use flaming swords of seukor because that spell has the best ratio of all my spells. Event ends. and i suddenly get a tell from Melwin saying i cheated and will get an account warning. Seukor is a bolt. Well, yes, its a bolt, and i broke the rule. why ? how can i know that flaming swords is a bolt while playing with no visual effects (anyway, bolts on Eqemu don't look like ones) or reading a description of the spell somewhere? Argument was that "seukor" should have revealed me that the spell was a bolt, my argument was to ask if shock of steel is a hammer hitting an anvil.
I didnt got any warning, that i know at least, after Melwin and I chatted of this. The main reason is that things that you focus on arent perhaps seen the same by other people.
In that case, who is to blame here?
the player that uses by ignorance a forbidden spell ?
the ruler who doesnt name the forbidden spells ?

Seriously, i can admit that i break a rule... well it can happen (the one i broke doesnt sound that important to me). But one thing i can't afford to admit is to have my few spare times wasted. Like i said in my first post, as soon as the sanction needs arrive, don't act like a bulldozer, make use of common sense and commnunicate the reason, eventually even the remedy.

I trust you to have the capacities to run a service like WR's server. now get that touch of public relations, and you ll increase again the overall quality and feelings of satisfaction of your players, and believe me, there's nothing more valuable than that.

forgive my grammatical mislayings and thank you for reading.
 
... as soon as the sanction needs arrive, don't act like a bulldozer, make use of common sense and commnunicate the reason, eventually even the remedy.

I trust you to have the capacities to run a service like WR's server. now get that touch of public relations, and you ll increase again the overall quality and feelings of satisfaction of your players, and believe me, there's nothing more valuable than that.

Very true words.
 
robsson said:
Ya, understood. Hmm I think Decimal's idea about shining up the most important rules was good. You should put it at tips when starting up on server or something if possible. Although I never read tips myself, so they could prolly take it as the annoying tips window which it is. Heheh

The signup process has a big bolded link to the rules.
 
Muuss said:
Well i m sorry if i broke that rule, i recognize i did it and deserved a punishment.
Tho I won't participate to events anymore because i m not able to formulate things in another way than the language i m using right now. Let's not involve Nuralia in this, i m not reporting word for word what she said.

For the other points, i still complain of your rudiness. You charmove me because i m breaking a rule, well ok, there's a rule. Just say : "Use roleplay language during events". Nobody is asking you to call us sir or use please and thanks in each sentence. Just communicate.

As an example, the same day, i asked you in IRC if i could get a move to avoid another stupid LD death from last friday's raid. I didnt even got an answer.
answer : sorry Dec, i wont do that because you should have came back

2 days before, you were speaking of debugging and i told u that 3 mobs werent acting correctly in ToFS when attacked, no answer.
answer : Report this on the forum

PVP event died because of no success, why ?
instead of asking people why it's not fun, there's a message saying : "no more PVP events if players don't show up for the next one". Well i wasnt online saturday, but i guess that nobody came since there's now a new message saying that PVP events are canceled. What's the reason ? people don't like PVP ? people don't like how PVP is handled ? People don't like shadowhaven ? people don't like to die from a wizard nuke or from a magician pet without standing a chance ?

On the first pvp event, i came because Liam asked me to come, i never liked PVP, but i came to participate. I hear some rules, like not using bolts. 1 against 1 event starts, i see ksahrn, i follow him to attack him, then suddenly dies because Nuralia casted an area nuke without even knowing that i m here, her target was Ksahrn... fun, 1 hour lost for that.
team againts team event start, this time i have a chance to cast a few nukes, and i use flaming swords of seukor because that spell has the best ratio of all my spells. Event ends. and i suddenly get a tell from His Royal Highness Melwin saying i cheated and will get an account warning. Seukor is a bolt. Well, yes, its a bolt, and i broke the rule. why ? how can i know that flaming swords is a bolt while playing with no visual effects (anyway, bolts on Eqemu don't look like ones) or reading a description of the spell somewhere? Argument was that "seukor" should have revealed me that the spell was a bolt, my argument was to ask if shock of steel is a hammer hitting an anvil.
I didnt got any warning, that i know at least, after His Royal Highness Melwin and I chatted of this. The main reason is that things that you focus on arent perhaps seen the same by other people.
In that case, who is to blame here?
the player that uses by ignorance a forbidden spell ?
the ruler who doesnt name the forbidden spells ?

Seriously, i can admit that i break a rule... well it can happen (the one i broke doesnt sound that important to me). But one thing i can't afford to admit is to have my few spare times wasted. Like i said in my first post, as soon as the sanction needs arrive, don't act like a bulldozer, make use of common sense and commnunicate the reason, eventually even the remedy.

I trust you to have the capacities to run a service like WR's server. now get that touch of public relations, and you ll increase again the overall quality and feelings of satisfaction of your players, and believe me, there's nothing more valuable than that.

forgive my grammatical mislayings and thank you for reading.

I'll admit some of these rebukes. The send to PoT was mostly an act of frustration because all "warnings" seem forgotten one day or hour later.

As for the "no answers", those were not because I was ignoring you, but rather because I generally have a million things to do, and simply forgot about the charmove deal. I don't usually pay that much attention to IRC.

I take no responsibility for the PVP event, that was a major fuckup on both Melwin's and some of the players' sides.
 
Well Wiz, there's no biggies anyway as i ll keep having fun on your server and hope you ll keep having fun adminstrating it.
I just wanted to make you realize how frustrating it can be for people who try to invest their time in that adventure when they feel badly treated.

If i was ever participating to upcoming events, i promise you to port all my attention on my language.

Deci.
 
Ya I know there's a link on the page. A link they will only read once and then start playing. People think they got a hold of it if they read it once but that isn't the case. At least people who are like me ;)

Don't get me wrong now, I have read it more than once :p
Maybe it is enough, dunno. Was just a suggestion.
 
i was wondering where decimal went. i was standing right there and i never thought anything of what he said (things where pretty hectic at that point it was the the first 5 minutes of the event). in fact i think i replied "i don't have my undead nuke yet"
 
I've been doing a series of events with Erig, and I must say roleplaying both makes the storyline better...and the event overall more fun. I've been staying in character to the best of my abilites, and been enjoying the storyline I'm following. Events I'd have to disagree with Decimial and say that they are quite amazing on the server, better than anything I've participated in EQLive. Thanks to all the WR guys for making this a helluva lot of fun. :D
 
I'd have to disagree with Decimial and say that they are quite amazing on the server, better than anything I've participated in EQLive.

Who is that Decimial ? i can't find a post here from him where he wrote such things.
Go read the post from its beginning please, and you'll see that i m not complaining of the quality of the events.
 
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