Shaman Slows... Is the Database correct?

K

Kirin Folken

Dalayan Elder
Going throw the spell database I came across a odd problem. If this database is correct, isn't the 60th level quested Shaman slow pointless? I can only asume something is wrong.. or missing from the database. Prehaps the later spell is harder to resist. Wonder if I could get some help out there (that would be useful for all shamans) carifying what makes each slow different.


Turgur's Insects
Shaman: 51
Mana: 250
Casting time: 3.0 seconds
Duration: 50
Description: Targetable Slow (50%), Poison Counters

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Plague of Insects
Shaman: 54 Beastlord: 63
Mana: 250
Casting time: 6.4 seconds
Duration: 50
Description: Targetable Slow (40%), Poison Counters

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Festering Insects
Shaman: 60
Mana: 335
Casting time: 6.5 seconds
Duration: 50
Description: Targetable Slow (50%), Poison Counters

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Tigir's Insects
Shaman: 58
Mana: 350
Casting time: 5.0 seconds
Duration: 50
Description: Target Based AoE Slow (50%), Poison Counters, Modify Hate


Plague of Insects looks to have a similar issue, if this is true and its only 40% slow with nothing else, your better off useing your 51st slow then 54. (again going to guess theres neg. Resistance in there or something).
 
They aren't for the same use.
PoI is on disease resist, wich means you can also slow mobs that are very highly magic resistant. It's mostly a situationnal tool, while turgur is your day to day slow. And don't get me wrong, that's an awesome situationnal tool, but still situationnal ;).
 
Kelval said:
They aren't for the same use.
PoI is on disease resist, wich means you can also slow mobs that are very highly magic resistant. It's mostly a situationnal tool, while turgur is your day to day slow. And don't get me wrong, that's an awesome situationnal tool, but still situationnal ;).
Click to expand...

That makes sense... so that takes care of one of the odd slows (PoI vs Turgurs).

Now.. what about Turgurs vs Festering Insects


Since Festering is a quest slow.. there got to be something important about it. Is it also Disease based? like PoI. That would seem to make sense (upgrade to PoI).
 
Not sure what spell parser you use, but it should be telling you the resist type on each spell so you can check for that in the future.
 
For the same percentage of effect, our disease slows are several levels higher than the magic slows.

Festering Insects is simply a higher level version of Plague of Insects, as Turgur's is an upgrade of our level 39 Torgor's. The magic line requires less mana and has a faster cast, so it is techincally the better of the two lines, but some mobs are difficult to slow with it.

Tigir's is technically an AoE version of Turgur's, centered on the target, with a huge radius. Thus, it has a slower cast and higher mana cost. With the currently in place AoE rules on the server, however, it really only hits your target and yourself, and maybe something that has been actively trying to pry you from your armor. Notice the Modify Hate tag, however. It is less likely to drag your target off the tank and on to yourself, but is not foolproof... it is merely an extra second or two of aggro buildup from the tank.
 
If you're not stealing aggro from the tank, you're not doing it right.

TRY HARDER!

And yeah, the different lines of resists really do come in handy.
 
Little derail since the question is more or less answered (hope what is coming hasn't been discussed already) :

How does it work in case of stacknig slows ?
Lemme explain: you got a BST or SHM in group, like in Eldenals, and you got this undead roamer inc. It soon gets slowed 50%. Then pops the necro of the group, which feels not lazy today, and decides to slow even if he knows his undead slow is only 40%. Luckily it lands on the mob though being a lower slow, and the SHM/BST doesn't even get a wear off message.
Question : how is it managed server side ? My guess is both stick, and the biggest slows prevails as long as it doesn't fade.
And btw I'm making all this with a shm type vs. nec type, but I think it's the same event with a BST and a SHM (or probably an ENC, don't know much about bard slow).
 
Dzillon said:
My guess is both stick, and the biggest slows prevails as long as it doesn't fade.
And btw I'm making all this with a shm type vs. nec type, but I think it's the same event with a BST and a SHM (or probably an ENC, don't know much about bard slow).
Click to expand...

As long as the mob has debuff slots, all slows with take hold, but only the highest will affect the mob. If the highest would fade/become cured/etc, then the next slow would take hold. This holds true for all slows, including bard slow.
 
Yup this answer my question very nicely, as to parse I wasn't, this is taken directly off spell site (link from Wiki).

The AoE slow is indeed a pain... the radius is SUPER HUGE!! for nailing yourself. I have found even proxy aggro will not normaly allow you land the Slow on multi targets. The only sure way is to literaly have a mob hit you a few times. Then the slow will land on all those that have hit you.

Kinda a pain.. i have on raids noticed the - Hate mod from the AoE slow. Certainly nice to have a few sec breathing time.
 
Kirin Folken said:
Yup this answer my question very nicely, as to parse I wasn't, this is taken directly off spell site (link from Wiki).

The AoE slow is indeed a pain... the radius is SUPER HUGE!! for nailing yourself. I have found even proxy aggro will not normaly allow you land the Slow on multi targets. The only sure way is to literaly have a mob hit you a few times. Then the slow will land on all those that have hit you.

Kinda a pain.. i have on raids noticed the - Hate mod from the AoE slow. Certainly nice to have a few sec breathing time.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure there isn't an "official" sod spell database, so anything you read should be taken with a grain of salt.
If you want to land an ae slow without getting beat on, try maloing before you slow, anything you malo will be hit by the slow.

Not directed at you, but tons of people complain about the low aggro aoe slow hitting them... why exactly? are you losing fat shaman melee dps or does the slow do something else too?
 
robopirateninja said:
Not directed at you, but tons of people complain about the low aggro aoe slow hitting them... why exactly? are you losing fat shaman melee dps or does the slow do something else too?
Click to expand...
Buff slot.
 
robopirateninja said:
I'm pretty sure there isn't an "official" sod spell database, so anything you read should be taken with a grain of salt.
If you want to land an ae slow without getting beat on, try maloing before you slow, anything you malo will be hit by the slow.
Click to expand...

No shit

and

why would I malo a mob I dont need to....
Malo is a long casting spell.. by the time you hit 2-3 targets with it the first target is noramly dead. Not like shamans are squishes (not as good as tanks, but there not int casters) a few blows isn't going to kill your shaman.

If you really want to cast on the targets and not mix it up, your 8th level DD would do the job better then malo.

robopirateninja said:
Not directed at you, but tons of people complain about the low aggro aoe slow hitting them... why exactly? are you losing fat shaman melee dps or does the slow do something else too?
Click to expand...

.... you dont play a shaman do you.
 
robopirateninja said:
you should have plenty of slots open unless you're being buff greedy :haw:

but yeah I wasn't thinking about the slot
Click to expand...

;) Nice

Unfortunely shamans arn't known for having a low aggro type spell to throw on a mob. This is were a clicky DD or small dot might be rather useful, if it had a decent clicky cast time.
 
As far as what you'll actually need Festering and Turgur's for, it depends on the mob. There are several mobs in the game that are either immune or highly resistant to magic. Instead of using Turgur's on a highly resistant magic mob and trying to get lucky, use festering and achieve the same effect. More often than not a mob will be way more magic resistant than they are disease resistant.

Archaic slow is different, and I'm not going to give strat leaks on it. :toot:
 
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