Shaman Healing (Woundbane)

K

Kirin Folken

Dalayan Elder
Was looking over the 3 healer classes Healling abilites and noticed a trend when comparing each.
Generaly it seems as you progress to the better healing class thier Relic is equal to the none relic heal of the better class. This holds true save for shamans seem to fall a bit behind in this curve. Thier Relic also has a smaller upgrade over all then druids and clerics.

Close Wounds (55 Druid) 5 Sec 295 mana 1250 hps healed
Revitalize(63 Druid) 4 sec 340 mana 1780 hps healed
Relic: Sihala Empathy 3 sec 345 mana 2150 hps healed

1 sec faster each, + 530 hps healed + 370hps healed

Close Wounds (55 Shaman) 5 sec 295 mana 1250 hps healed
Mend Wounds (61 Shaman) 4 sec 280 mana 1400 hps healed
Relic: Woundbane 3 sec 285 mana 1650 hps healed

1 sec faster on each, +150 hps healed then +250 hps healed

Ethereal Light (58 Cleric) 4 sec 325 mana 1600 hps healed
Blissful Light (63 cleric) 4 sec 390 mana 2100 hps healed
Relic: Light of Eternity 3 sec 395 mana 2700 hps healed

Only relic decrease cast time, however + 700hps, +600 hps

Oddly enough Shamans for a short period of time are better single target healers then druids , but then get blown out of the water at 63 by druids. Druids Relic heal is basicly= to clerics best none relic heal (2150vs2100) Were as the shamans heal still falls short (1650vs1780). Granted shamans are suppose to be 3rd teir healers but a slight bump up in relics heal seems to be more in line with how the 3 healers work.

So my Request:

Relic: Woundbane 3 sec 285 mana 1725 base hps healed. (increase of 75 base hps healed over old Relic).


This still keep shamans behind druids and clerics in single target healing, even keeping the lower curve shamans seem to have .
 
Yeah I know about those older threads I really didn't feel 75hps (heck even 50 hps upgrade I think brings everything into a nice progression) was that big of a deal to throwing the Canni vs Mana out of wack.
And its only on thier last heal spell Im looking at everything else seems fine, even the lack luster Mend Wounds upgrade which many shaman have a beef with.

Those threads are also a year old :D
 
Your line of reasoning assumes that there needs to be a pattern in the classes healing for there to be balance.

Why?
 
This topic has already been covered extensively by staff and other shamans and such in previous threads, so don't feel too bad if this thread is a little light on the replies. We'll definitely be reading it to see if anyone has a new idea/point etc, but we probably won't be doing much posting just becasue we've already talked the topic through pretty thuroughly.
 
Thinkmeats said:
This topic has already been covered extensively by staff and other shamans and such in previous threads, so don't feel too bad if this thread is a little light on the replies. We'll definitely be reading it to see if anyone has a new idea/point etc, but we probably won't be doing much posting just becasue we've already talked the topic through pretty thuroughly.
Click to expand...


Thanks for at least posting in it TM :keke:

I know its kinda of beaten horse, so I dont' expect to much of it.
 
Honestly the biggest drawback to shamans is the combined lack of healing power (low heal numbers) and the lack of multiple target heals. Both other healing classes not only get bigger heals, and a bigger benefit from tomes/focus effects, but group heals, allowing them to be an AE/Group healer while also healing the MT/ST, whereas if a shaman is placed in the group healing position, s/he has to dedicate their time to the task, drawing heals away from their intended target.
So they're usually stuck on the MT, throwing 1.6k heals pre-tomes, and 2k heals with full tome benefit, when clerics go from 2.7k to 3.3 on both single target AND group heals. (Not counting focus/spec obviously) So for twice the mana of LoE (395 -> 790) a cleric can heal 6 targets for 1300 more than a shaman can heal a single target, for nearly 900 mana less than it would have taken the shaman.

Naturally the argument is going to come up that Shaman have superior mana regeneration. Yes, a single shaman can outlast the rest of the raids healers. What does that mean? Nothing at all. A shaman being the only one with mana isn't going to save a raid. A cleric however, can. Also, there aren't a whole lot of fights where that mana regen is needed, because every other class will be OOM at that point, so I fail to see what having a fuller mana bar at the end of a fight is going to help.

It's fine to be pigeonholed into the 'last a lot longer, but heal for less' role, but at least make Shaman decent at their main job, as they are currently the worst at it.
 
Not that it has much to do with Woundbane...

(someone could make Healing Sleep a normal hot instead of its Aggro magnet I can't do anything while its on me hot).

Making the 3 healers look more like this:

Druids big Single target heals, mod Group Heals
Clerics Very Big Single Targets heals, Big Group Heals, Big Hots
Shamans Mod Single Target Heals, Mod Hots

Would seem to make sense to me, I think TM is the one that brought it up awhile back. The Possiblity of giving Shamans hots.... much argueing went ether way in that thread and it was shot down at the end.



Since Paladins and Clerics Hots got moved to the Song bar, prehaps its time to look at the possibilities of adding a Normal (useing buff slot) hot to shamans again. They no longer would be fighting the cleric for the Hot Slot.
 
I'd actually really like to see Torpor and Healing sleep be made useful. Upping Torpors mana cost to say, 200, keeping the healed/tick the same, but removing just the slow component (keep the snare) and giving it a 12 second recast would go a long way. Healing Sleep on the other hand would have to have the FD/Fragile portion removed, and given a finite duration, maybe 48-60 seconds, so the shaman could only keep it up on one tank. Ancient: Slumber of the Beast however, should remain self only.
 
Not sure I like the idea of Topor becomeing a Hot. If anything I would say Slumber of the beast is a better choice for it. Since the Ancients generaly improve upon something the class already has.
Turning Topor or slumber into a Targetable Hot thier mana cost would definitely have to be adjusted.


Ancient: Slumber of the Beast 4 sec cast 300 mana, 4 ticks 350 base heal per tick, Recharge 30 secs
Keep Snare, remove other added bonuses.

This makes it not as good of a Hot as clerics get ( 59th cleric is 3 sec, 320 mana 4 ticks at 425 hps, 30 sec recharge)


As to healing sleep... not sure how much of that AA can be modiftyed.
 
Mythryn said:
... and a bigger benefit from tomes/focus effects...
Click to expand...

Mythrin has a point there: tomes are going to increase the gap heals between shamans and druid/clerics
 
Ancient: Slumber of the Beast 4 sec cast 300 mana, 4 ticks 350 base heal per tick, Recharge 30 secs
Keep Snare, remove other added bonuses.

This makes it not as good of a Hot as clerics get ( 59th cleric is 3 sec, 320 mana 4 ticks at 425 hps, 30 sec recharge)
Click to expand...

Yeah, gee, thats such a world apart.

How many groups have you honestly known to use shamans as the main healer? A few.
This is a big question of vision for the class. I've always considered shamans to be necessary for a group for buffs and slowing, not for healing. Healing is a secondary function of a shaman to me... like paladin healing.

- A cleric.
 
Kirin Folken said:
Would seem to make sense to me, I think TM is the one that brought it up awhile back. The Possiblity of giving Shamans hots.... much argueing went ether way in that thread and it was shot down at the end.
Click to expand...

It wasn't so much 'shot down' as it was 'dogpiled by a bunch of non-shamans' which kills the thread way more than it kills the idea, but there were other problems with it. I looked into it and played around with some test spells but ended up tabling the project to work on Prison Sanctum. Since then, I've just been up to more important stuff. I may revisit the idea someday, but it definitely takes a back bench compared to the other stuff I have in the cooker.

To be perfectly blunt, converting shaman heals to HoT-dependant requires a huge amount of work for relatively mild benifit.
 
LoE is 3.5 casting , 3.0 is if you got csi7 item on you. But maybe you counted all spells after a csi7 item and just forgot to mention it ?

Valero said:
Mythrin has a point there: tomes are going to increase the gap heals between shamans and druid/clerics
Click to expand...

Not everyone will get a tome or even finnish all 5 of em. Shamans still benefit from em as the other healers do.
 
Kirin Folken said:
Not sure I like the idea of Topor becomeing a Hot. If anything I would say Slumber of the beast is a better choice for it. Since the Ancients generaly improve upon something the class already has.
Turning Topor or slumber into a Targetable Hot thier mana cost would definitely have to be adjusted.


Ancient: Slumber of the Beast 4 sec cast 300 mana, 4 ticks 350 base heal per tick, Recharge 30 secs
Keep Snare, remove other added bonuses.

This makes it not as good of a Hot as clerics get ( 59th cleric is 3 sec, 320 mana 4 ticks at 425 hps, 30 sec recharge)


As to healing sleep... not sure how much of that AA can be modiftyed.
Click to expand...
I aprove this idea 100%.
 
Woundbane and Sihala's Empathy have 3.75 sec casting time, not 3 sec.

I much prefer having shaman as main healer in groups because of their seemingly almost infinite mana (and how often do you really need group heals in a normal group except if you're fighting a named? Please don't give Emberflow as an example). And you don't need 8 group healers in a raid, but usually 3 at most, while the shamans pad heal.
I might have a very narrow view, but I see shamans ok as they are. (My bf plays a shaman and I play a druid and it's not rare that i'd rather play him in groups than my druid, because we don't have any downtime if he's healing).
I think if shamans were to get better heals, their mana cost should be noticeably increased as well. I feel it's like arguing why wizards don't get necro dots and necros don't get rains.

Edit: That's just my view as a player. Though I wouldn't oppose to Healing Sleep AA being changed to something more useful.
 
I do see your point Tinkaa about the Wizard vs Dot, however in the shamans case they already have it. (topor, Slumber, Healing Sleep) So it not really the same as a wizard asking for necro dots. (specialy since its not like shamans are asking for Cleric Hots).

Honestly just changing healing Sleep into something more useful would probley solve the problem. Some kind of AA Hot

I got the casting times off Wiki so blame whoever edited them all with CI 7 being used LOL.
 
How many groups have you honestly known to use shamans as the main healer? A few.
This is a big question of vision for the class. I've always considered shamans to be necessary for a group for buffs and slowing, not for healing. Healing is a secondary function of a shaman to me... like paladin healing.
Click to expand...

In my opinion shamans are the best group healers out there except for certain groupable encounters that are extreemly though. This is not of their healing power but more of the other utility they bring making it so you have a couple tasks in 1 group spot and open another dps spot.

In raid situations however their lasting mana isnt that good as mentioned before. There heals are not good enough to keep the tank up in a raid and certainly not if they are also doing the stuff they do to have that insane mana regen (read canny). But they can take alot of healing when the rest arent oom and reduce mana use on clerics and druids. the problem is that shamans are the best buffers and slowers in game making them also real good in healing would be unbalanced compared to druids and clerics in groups.
 
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