Sabatons of the Murk

Swiftur said:
Please play a warrior and try and maintain hate with one ON TIER with a shield full time.
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hah

if anything these boots need nerfed, or other boots need buffed. From this mob to nz there are 3 other pair of boots off harder to reach/kill mobs that are basically ignored by almost every class on them.

Also saying nz is a long way away from murkwater is pretty laughable. Nz is one of the biggest loot pinatas in the game and even though it drops end game items, it's by far one of the easiest mobs in the higher tiers.
 
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Well it's my opinion that everything from tur'ruj, blazewind (bow aside) and many items from sanctum should be better than they are. Nebi points out a bad habbit that has become standard in our gaming community. If an item at x tier is better or just as good as item y which is one tier higher, then clearly x item should be nerfed.

Shackles of Purgatory are a perfect example of what i'm talking about. They are this good because they were designed around a 6 man mechanic that makes them harder to obtain on tier. One could even argue that they are better than murkwater boots, depending on your needs.

I would also add that yeah, Abyss loot overall is powerful. The reason for this is because it's generally expected that 12 man fights are intended to be more difficult than their 18 man counterparts and in turn the rewards for winning are better. The scheme of things has been swayed nowadays with ringer toons, etc. I think that anyone would agree that some of these fights, especially The Murkwater are quite difficult to win with a completely on/below tier raid force and as such, I, personally would like to see a more useful proc on them because of it.
 
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What is easier? Getting 6 retarded people to do what needs to be done to complete a fight or 18? Gathering 6 people or 18? moving 6 people or 18? I fail to see how 6 man are harder by any measure.
 
Swiftur said:
Well it's my opinion that everything from tur'ruj, blazewind (bow aside) and many items from sanctum should be better than they are. Nebi points out a bad habbit that has become standard in our gaming community. If an item at x tier is better or just as good as item y which is one tier higher, then clearly x item should be nerfed.
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i agree, the large number of clearly best in slot items from those zones/monster deserve to be buffed. Also, you've seen how amazing some of the easy to obtain items are, to make upgrades to them would make characters even stronger than they are now. I could make quite the list of items that are way too good for what they come from
 
The extremely difficult boss melek'taus that a bard, a class that is core to most 6 mans, can nearly break over their knee by virtue of two songs. Shackles are good (and probably the best bard boots until taeshlin 2.0 boots unless you're insanely unlucky with jur drops) but let's be real here: the hard part of emberflow is finding it up and having people around to go stomp it, not the actual fights. Shit I'd argue some of the trash pulls before MT are harder than him.
 
This entire conversation has to had in the mindset that things are obtained on tier in progression, not that taking 5 t13s and one scum toon to MT to get loots or a similar horizon for The Abyss. That is not how fights in the game are designed, nor is it the way they are balanced. When a guild or group exceeds the level of the content they are farming, of course it gets easier, but that doesn't change how the rewards should be viewed from a progression stand point. Which is, I believe, what the OP is trying to say. That the proc on these boots is not in line with the difficulty or the lore of the fight. I must agree with him. While there is nothing particularly bad or underpowered about the item, the proc is lackluster compared to similarly tiered items and the design purpose for this one.

As an aside, I encourage anyone to take a full T9 (farhag/early yclist) group to MT and do it and then to come back here and still try and argue that the loot is too good. The same applies to The Murkwater, Sorrow, and everything else in there. Gather a no ringer raid and attempt that and try and say it's not hard. Sub 18-man content is designed with the intention that it is harder than 18 man content because there is less room for player error, undergeared toons. This concept is currently perfectly displayed in the end game. Your guild mates may all have every piece of loot from blazewind or taeshlin 2.0... guess what? If someone messes up, you're going to wipe. Because you are doing it on tier.
 
I almost don't even feel like responding because this is a really bizarre hill to die on but let's just compare boots here:

http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Abandon_of_the_Blazing (these are from eternal well, a tier 9 encounter)

[MAGIC ITEM] [LORE ITEM] [NO DROP]
Slot: Feet
AC: 35
Effect: Runeshield (Kick Proc, 6.7%)
Skill Mod: Kick +15
STR: +20 DEX: +20 CHA: +13 WIS: +15 INT: +15 HP: +172 MANA: +172
SV FIRE: +8 SV DISEASE: +8 SV COLD: +8 SV MAGIC: +8 SV POISON: +8
Recommended level of 65.
WT: 0.9 Size: Small
Class: WAR CLR PAL RNG SHD DRU MNK BRD ROG SHM BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1 type 2: empty

[MAGIC ITEM] [LORE ITEM] [NO DROP]
Slot: Feet
AC: 44
Focus Effect: Affliction Enhancement VII
Effect: Affliction (Kick Proc, 20%)
Skill Mod: 2H Slashing +10
STR: +12 STA: +12 CHA: +25 WIS: +18 INT: +18 AGI: +12 HP: +190 MANA: +170
SV DISEASE: +40
Recommended level of 65.
WT: 4.0 Size: Small
Class: WAR PAL RNG SHD
Race: ALL
Slot 1 type 2: empty

Tanking wise you gain 9 AC, lose 8 STR, gain 12 stamina, 12 charisma, 3 wis/int, 18 health and lose some resists for a big chunk of disease resist. They are an upgrade tanking wise besides arguably losing the proc on a warrior but if you're depending on a kick proc to save your life your healers need to either wake the fuck up or you need to hit your buttons better on your warrior.

Honestly I'm so fucking confused. The lore argument is still dumb since yes it is a cold/water mob but IT'S SURROUNDED BY DISEASE AND DECAY. You can't say the proc doesn't fit the lore of the zone. The boots are flat out upgrade, NZ boots are a flat out upgrade later, Voidstep are a flat out upgrade later for warriors.

Of all the things to complain about in the game, it's this? This is where you choose to make your stand, on boots that are good outside of a proc that makes you feel sad?
 
Swiftur said:
As an aside, I encourage anyone to take a full T9 (farhag/early yclist) group to MT and do it and then to come back here and still try and argue that the loot is too good. The same applies to The Murkwater, Sorrow, and everything else in there. Gather a no ringer raid and attempt that and try and say it's not hard. Sub 18-man content is designed with the intention that it is harder than 18 man content because there is less room for player error, undergeared toons.
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A good enchanter makes some of the encounters in abyss incredibly easy. The point about sub-18man content would be true if everybody in the 18 man and 6 man are equally skilled but this is not the case in reality. 6man allows you to stack your group with the best players in your guild and not have to deal with carrying people, like what happens in most raids.
 
Tevinter said:
A good enchanter makes some of the encounters in abyss incredibly easy. The point about sub-18man content would be true if everybody in the 18 man and 6 man are equally skilled but this is not the case in reality. 6man allows you to stack your group with the best players in your guild and not have to deal with carrying people, like what happens in most raids.
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rip beastlords.
 
Swiftur said:
This entire conversation has to had in the mindset that things are obtained on tier in progression, not that taking 5 t13s and one scum toon to MT to get loots or a similar horizon for The Abyss. That is not how fights in the game are designed, nor is it the way they are balanced. When a guild or group exceeds the level of the content they are farming, of course it gets easier, but that doesn't change how the rewards should be viewed from a progression stand point. Which is, I believe, what the OP is trying to say. That the proc on these boots is not in line with the difficulty or the lore of the fight. I must agree with him. While there is nothing particularly bad or underpowered about the item, the proc is lackluster compared to similarly tiered items and the design purpose for this one.

As an aside, I encourage anyone to take a full T9 (farhag/early yclist) group to MT and do it and then to come back here and still try and argue that the loot is too good. The same applies to The Murkwater, Sorrow, and everything else in there. Gather a no ringer raid and attempt that and try and say it's not hard. Sub 18-man content is designed with the intention that it is harder than 18 man content because there is less room for player error, undergeared toons. This concept is currently perfectly displayed in the end game. Your guild mates may all have every piece of loot from blazewind or taeshlin 2.0... guess what? If someone messes up, you're going to wipe. Because you are doing it on tier.
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http://s729.photobucket.com/user/lleoc/media/EQ000099.jpg.html

It's almost like i did that shit 5 years ago when nobody had over 10 tomes. It's easier to do content with fewer people, there's no 2 ways about it. Having to teach 6 people something is easier than having to rely on 18 people to show up, be good that night and kill a monster. MT is a poor example since a bard completely busts the fight, especially since ikkisith and runic 1. I did murkwater again recently with an incredibly undergeared/xp'd/charmed crew. It wasn't hard because an enchanter breaks that fight.

Getting 18 people to show up to push progress has been the hardest part of progressing for my umpteenth time through the game. When we finally get 18 people it's just waiting on the people who you wouldn't take to beat 6 man content for the first time to get their shit right so the monster actually dies. How many guilds have killed 4.3? Easily the hardest strat fight 6 man currently killed to my knowledge. Then how many guilds have killed Sharnree?

Anyway, it's pretty pointless to try to convince people about balance when they went through the game using ringers only to turn around and bring up others use them and have no concept of balance. The boots off of murkwater are incredibly good for the difficulty of obtaining them. You wear them for nearly 2 tiers worth of content over other options that drop off less accessible/more difficult things.
 
Lleoc said:
Anyway, it's pretty pointless to try to convince people about balance when they went through the game using ringers only to turn around and bring up others use them and have no concept of balance.
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I agree, and for what its worth having done a lot of this pre-balancing and 100 years ago, I think the fights are fine and the loot is fine. If the boots on murkwater are good that's ok with me: you have to go into the abyss and do murkwater. Easier said than done when you are forming that group.
 
Lleoc said:
http://s729.photobucket.com/user/lleoc/media/EQ000099.jpg.html

It's almost like i did that shit 5 years ago when nobody had over 10 tomes. It's easier to do content with fewer people, there's no 2 ways about it. Having to teach 6 people something is easier than having to rely on 18 people to show up, be good that night and kill a monster. MT is a poor example since a bard completely busts the fight, especially since ikkisith and runic 1. I did murkwater again recently with an incredibly undergeared/xp'd/charmed crew. It wasn't hard because an enchanter breaks that fight.

Getting 18 people to show up to push progress has been the hardest part of progressing for my umpteenth time through the game. When we finally get 18 people it's just waiting on the people who you wouldn't take to beat 6 man content for the first time to get their shit right so the monster actually dies. How many guilds have killed 4.3? Easily the hardest strat fight 6 man currently killed to my knowledge. Then how many guilds have killed Sharnree?

Anyway, it's pretty pointless to try to convince people about balance when they went through the game using ringers only to turn around and bring up others use them and have no concept of balance. The boots off of murkwater are incredibly good for the difficulty of obtaining them. You wear them for nearly 2 tiers worth of content over other options that drop off less accessible/more difficult things.
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The hard part of killing MT was to make sure Arteno wasnt drunk enough to not heal or fall asleep.
 
Lleoc said:
Getting 18 people to show up to push progress has been the hardest part of progressing for my umpteenth time through the game. When we finally get 18 people it's just waiting on the people who you wouldn't take to beat 6 man content for the first time to get their shit right so the monster actually dies. How many guilds have killed 4.3? Easily the hardest strat fight 6 man currently killed to my knowledge. Then how many guilds have killed Sharnree?
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I don't even know what this thread is about anymore but I agree with this thing here that Lleoc said 100%.
 
It started as i want my loot thats better than other loot in the same slot for two tiers of content item to be buffed because that's what im wearing thread. Then turned into an I'm an expert on the game because it says dev trainee next to my name. Followed by someone who tries too hard to try to get a point across to people who wern't looking for an actual discussion. Sprinkled heavily with the reccomended 6-10 people having to add nothing to a conversation posts. And there you have your typical SoD forum post where the content being discussed don't matter and the points are made up.
 
Lleoc said:
Sprinkled heavily with the reccomended 6-10 people having to add nothing to a conversation posts. And there you have your typical SoD forum post where the content being discussed don't matter and the points are made up.
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bring back loose platinum and people will be less inclined to shit up threads that have actual purpose
 
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