Runic: Avatar of Destruction - Line of Spells?

A

Arcen

Dalayan Adventurer
My enchanter just received this spell. It is such a huge bump in power, its like I am playing a different class. I thought it would be good to extend this into a line for lower level players, so hopefully more people would be willing to play an enchanter up to the high levels. Seeing actual mained enchanters is pretty rare. Something along the lines of:

Level 34 - 40% chance to mimic target's detrimental spells. 175 Mana, 4 Ticks - "Jealous Mummer"
Level 54 - 60% chance to mimic target's detrimental spells. 250 Mana, 3 Ticks - "Studious Thespian"
Level 65 - 80% chance to mimic target's detrimental spells. 375 Mana, 3 Ticks - "Master Mimic"

If it needs to replace a spell, I would suggest replacing the Misdirection set of spells.
 
Enchanters are already such a strong class buffing them in any way would be silly. Even Pre-AoD enchanters are incredibly strong. As for why people don't play them I'm not entirely sure, but it definately isn't because they are underpowered.
 
Going to start out by saying enchanter buffs are so long lasting, that almost everyone can/will buff before the group before heading out and get a full session in with them.

What enchanters can offer in group or raid is:
Slowing (fulfilled by bard/shaman/bst, most mobs die to quickly to be worthwhile)
Visages (short annoying +/- agro buffs not utilized most of the time, lack of spell bar slots/buff slots)
CC (premier class for CC, but 95% of the time, not needed nor desired)
Charm pet (very limited zones)
Boon of the Garou (great melee dps buff, but you can only keep up on 2 characters. If there was an equivalent for casters, I would call it good. e.g. 60% casting speed, -25% mana, -25% agro buff)
Mimic spells (Somatic and AoD, both received at/post 65. Allows enchanters to fulfill a DPS role so long as they are the only enchanter in group)
Dots/DD (laughable)
Stuns (almost everyone stuns (many procs and spells have a small stun component) and due to current game mechanics, don't do anything other than gain hate, unless you are the first to cast)
Shared Mind (good, but overlooked most of the time)

The changes I suggested won't boost power post-AoD and allow enchanters to fill the DPS slot pre-AoD. This would allow enchanters to group in a dps capacity with a mixed melee/caster group. Pre-AoD, if you are in a pure caster group, all you are bringing to the table is utility. Utility is good and useful, but "dead mobs quicker" is generally the preferred "utility" and what groups will take if given the choice. 3 Melee in a group, they are more than fine.
 
Arcen said:
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In an exp group enchanters a pretty sick. There is something you can charm in literally every EXP zone. You have Placid Focus in between pulls, you can boon/somatic bond and you can do decent DPS via True Giant tome. The CC enchanters have is game changing when its needed. Your tank is being retarded and just pulled an entire building of bloodfires? No big deal, mezz it. Besides, you can turn into a fucking dragon, and make an entire group of dragons beat up 1 bigger dragon. Oh, and you completely forgot runes and raidrune. I dont think any other class can carry a raid or group as hard as an enchanter
 
Tevinter said:
In an exp group enchanters a pretty sick. There is something you can charm in literally every EXP zone. You have Placid Focus in between pulls, you can boon/somatic bond and you can do decent DPS via True Giant tome. The CC enchanters have is game changing when its needed. Your tank is being retarded and just pulled an entire building of bloodfires? No big deal, mezz it. Besides, you can turn into a fucking dragon, and make an entire group of dragons beat up 1 bigger dragon. Oh, and you completely forgot runes and raidrune. I dont think any other class can carry a raid or group as hard as an enchanter
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I think his whole point is that pre-65+++ enchanters are not nearly as powerful in exp groups as endgame enchanters.
 
Dinadass said:
I think his whole point is that pre-65+++ enchanters are not nearly as powerful in exp groups as endgame enchanters.
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I didnt know you had to be endgame/65+++ to charm or mezz monsters, cast somatic bond/boon etc. At lower tiers enchanters are probably more powerful in relation to the rest of their group b/c the strength of the charm pet doesnt scale with the enchanter
 
Tevinter said:
I didnt know you had to be endgame/65+++ to charm or mezz monsters, cast somatic bond/boon etc. At lower tiers enchanters are probably more powerful in relation to the rest of their group b/c the strength of the charm pet doesnt scale with the enchanter
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There's this thing, called Control Enhancement, idk maybe you've heard of it.
 
I would argue that the whole "your dps depends on your allies, their classes, and whether they are playing competently at the moment" thing that enchanters ended up being saddled up with is not very great in general, and would only be more so when you aren't in an insular top-of-the-line raid guild and don't get much choice of who you group with.

No opinion about giving more mimicy spells, but if we did I don't think the % chance to mimic described in the OP would be the way to do it. Lower levels don't cast nearly as much per-fight (especially nukers) and don't have nearly as much mana to work with in the first place. With that in mind, putting a big chunk of mana down on a spell that has a good chance of doing nothing or very little even if you are grouped with a competent wizard would probably be disappointing more often than not. Though when you do luck out that might be a bit out of whack too.

% reduced effectiveness of the mimiced spell would be a lot smoother. Maybe 25% -> 50% -> 75%.
 
Which would work fine for dd/dots, how about debuffs? Stacking issues? It seemed much easier to implement if it was % chance to mimic.

TBH, I am generally ok with the dps depends on your allies. Especially with AoD where the dps is done based on my gear/tomes/etc, so long as they cast often, and the right spells. Though begging rangers to cast jolt = lame. To few classes use direct -agro spells I can mimic (wiz/ranger).

Perhaps slightly lowering the percent chance to mimic and add a couple extra ticks to ensure the enchanter gets some benefit. Or do a reverse splurt on percentages (100% first tick, 80% second tick, 50% third tick etc)

That said, I am in an insular top end guild. OOCing 65 Enchanter LFG generally doesn't net me a group, but when I do get a group, I feel like I am pulling my weight, if I can tolerate number of people breaking mezzes...
 
Arcen said:
Which would work fine for dd/dots, how about debuffs?
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AoD only mimics dds, dots and jolts, so I'm not sure why lower versions would apply more widely. Very few debuffs stack with themselves in the first place.
 
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Is there a reason why AoD doesnt work for Druid Cataclysm spell? I know Tevinter mentioned in vent that it didn't, and wasn't sure if it was just a weird kinda spell or intentional thing.

[Edit]
Abstraction is in the same boat I believe too.
 
The initial spellcast isn't a dd, dot or jolt, so it gets passed over by the check. Other "dualcast"-like spells would get skipped for the same reason, unless they happen to have a damage component on the initial spell like that one necro runic I seem to recall. Probably not explicitly intended.

edit: abstraction (of flame?)'s ae pulses do appear to be specifically excluded though, presumably because the lose control part is not mimicked.
 
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I would personally love to see the AoD spell line implamented at an earlier level. It would make the class a viable dps option prior to having the force to do Baldakans / shell farming. Do chanters rock? Yes they do. It feels like such a shame that folks have to wait so long in order to get this spell.

Perhaps if there were earlier versions of this spell there could be a negative effect added on the caster such as a root or snare in order to make that Runic still really stand out.
 
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