Rogue Call Tome

Draeos said:
Hey lets stop attacking because your dps is to good for this tank...Thats the by far worst way to control aggro ever.
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Draeos said:
well i agree that yes you can throttle your dps back and yes a not dead dps is a dps that is still dpsing, its an ugly way to deal with it and would be amazing if there was a better way to deal with it
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This is aggro control for most classes. Wizards stop nuking to cast concussions (which get resisted/fail just like evades do!) Beastlords and mages just kind of have to stop dpsing to reduce aggro; monks and necros dont do dps while they are FDing to drop aggro (although that's the most reliable AND quickest aggro reduction)

Also from your OP you are describing fights as if the tank engages and you immediately begin autoattacking and backstabbing as often as possible while weaving evades. Admittedly I have no experience with rogues whatsoever, but when i started fight on my wizard i would open with multiple concussions and then use a couple lower aggro rain spells until I was sure that it was safe to start blasting. Dropping a moon comet on a mob at 98% is a good way to get aggroed and dead, i would kind of expect the same for a big ol backstab too.
 
Can you just stance into s 5 for the 12 seconds or whatever it requires at the start of a fight and not ever have to worry about evasion fails outside of the super rare situation where you actually fail 8-10 times in a row.

Seriously the dps loss is minimal and you can just re-equip your mainhand to cancel stamina loss when you succeed evasion even though it takes almost nothing to use.
 
In a wiz's case you can chain concuss as needed i have to wait on a repop, your dps isn't dependent on keeping auto attack on, you burst dps rogue's are constant dps or are supposed to be, it just goes against a rogues class role to have to turn attack off. Maybe asking to max hide mod with the class tome was a bit much maybe just +5 for both 1 and +5 for 2.

This would make it at least a little more reliable means of dropping aggro besides blowing escape.

This is all in a effort to replace a useless tome and something i hate to deal with into something a little more pleasant.

and yes i get it /s 5 i have to play around with it yet. (ewwwww 8-10 times god screw that)

-on a side note can /s 5 generate -aggro like concuss? as thats something a wiz can do about aggro that a rogue cannot.
 
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How about we just ask for a tome that lowers/removes the cooldown between stance changing, someone mentioned how awesome this would be for monks/warriors in fwf and I dont know why noone ever posted about this maybe some cruel dev crushed their dreams.

get that sweet 6 seconds of /s 6 after succeeding an evade after stance changing back.


I dont know the numbers but /s 5 makes you generate no aggro at all from your attacks or such a low amount you really can never pull it off. I performed a super scientific test in which I melee rounded some mob on cinn once and then did about 60k damage on my rogue and didn't pull aggro at any point.

Its miracles.
 
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yes let me go right out and jump a tier or two or just go kill some mob in EF i have never attempted.

Real constructive. I mean i don't have max tome EF tomed warriors trying to hold aggro from me i have normal on tier tanks.

more Otcho posts plz as that was constructive ( god did i just say that?!?! )
 
Draeos said:
yes let me go right out and jump a tier or two or just go kill some mob in EF i have never attempted.
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Yeah well, can't really help with you being afraid to try new content. Where you got the idea that MK requires you to jump some tiers beats me though.
 
Against my better judgment I'm posting this idea.

Tome of Tracking, Well tracking is fun and all but it adds 0% to Ranger dps used on max timer with max skill.

On the other hand hitting ranged atk like a mad man lets us dps to our full 20/20 without dieing, With all this complaining about paly single target aggro no ones brought up that....ITS THE RANGERS WHO MELEE THAT ARE THE ONES DIEING!!!

I purpose that this class tome be changed into an innate bow proc that summons very large bunnies along the same lines of mage swarm pets. and number 2 could bring even more bunnies. Even if said bunnies hit for 1, it would be a dps increase.

Anyway something to think about feel free to pick this idea apart
 
jumping tiers was related to the abyss loot, i said i had never attempted MK, ( see the or? yeeaaahh thats what i thought ) and rangers who melee are bad =/ just look at driizz!
 
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I don't see anything wrong with the current situation. If you are boggingly gaining aggro after 3 backstabs without failing evade checks regularly, you are doing something so wrong I don't feel the need to address it. Thus, I'm just going to assume you aren't that stupid. If you ARE failing the evades, style 5 is there for a reason. It is fantastic and the stamina drain is negligible for the time it takes you to switch back to a higher damage stance. Having -10% Aggression is clutch; I'm not going to go into the (straightforward) statistics of why even a 3 percent reduction would make things glaringly different.

I posit that there are alternate solutions to your problems worth considering before such drastic action be taken. I also point out that I checked this on Dimmi and your face would be sexually assaulted should you question my playing ability.
 
Animand said:
I don't see anything wrong with the current situation.
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Keirga/Reinhardt said:
it hurts to lose dps doing so but i live by my motto "a dead dps is 0 dps)
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Learn to control your agro, I have never really seen any issues with ROG's pulling agro as they dont if the class is played correctly. You cannot expect to go in with all guns blazing on a mob until the tank builds some kind of agro. Hold back your DPS for a few pulls if you are playing with an unfamiliar tank and gauge his/her agro. There is enough "hand holding" in this game, however knowing the crux point between max DPS and pulling agro is an important skill.
 
Ok take this as a kinda rare but not rare enough scenario. (Before playing with /s 5 OK GOD )

Tank engages mob ( this is when a wiz starts building up -aggro )
Rogue goes in to engage lets say its a paly tanking so i am evading my heart out even before i back stab i get 1 good on in 3 during the first 45 seconds or something.

I haven't really totally opened up yet, Mobs at about 80% i start pulling out all the stops, I evade fail, I evade Fail, I evade Fail, Now i turn my attack off and keep mashing hide, I fail 4 more times, During this time i could have backstabed another 5-6 times doing any ware from 10k-25-30k more damage depending on luck, but due to the fail rate and unreliability of evade i haven't. Now granted before now i hadn't really played with /s 5 much and i have started to but normally i am grouping with a SK so thats not really going to help me to see how useful /s 5 is.

The tome idea for a reduced time on style switches is a nice one, maybe even a rogue/monk specific one where if you fail 3 evades your 4th is guaranteed to work, maybe even 5th or 6th, all rogues have had it happen to them where they fail 5 6 7 8 times in a row and theres nothing more frustrating.

Edit: Oh a refugee aug with a +5 hide mod would also be a nice trade off kinda like how rykke was saying, You already need to decide if losing some resist is worth the +5 backstab mod, why not do the same with a +5 hide mod, i mean yes you could go bahaha i am a retard and aug a full +25 but then you would be losing 75 resists, assuming you even had all the type 5 slots for it.
 
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I guess I'm one of the few who thinks DPS worrying about pulling aggro is a good thing. I was rather tired of playing a rogue in wow in which I pulled by far the best DPS in raids and all I had to do was Vanish to be at the very bottom of the aggro list, a skill that never failed.

Going balls out to get the max out of your dps is cool and all but it is also mindless if you never have to worry about aggro.

I have been raiding with Rotax for almost a year now and I do not recall seeing that guy pull aggro once. I would also guess he is putting forth more DPS then you Draeos so don't try to play that card again.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to bash you and call you a bad player. I'm sure you are rather good at the game seeing how much work you have put into your rogue. I would also guess you are trying to enhance how easy it is for a rogue to pull aggro just to get your point across that this tome is a good idea.

The thing is:

1) Not all class tomes are created equal. Looking at pally class tomes vs others will make it rather clear. Other classes also get, perhaps even more so, "worthless" class tomes.

2) Evade failing is the same as a Jolt being resisted. If evade never failed, should rangers/wizards de-aggro spells also never fail? Might as well give a insta drop to bottom of the aggro list button to every dps.

3) This is eq we are talking about. Its a rather non-complex games. Taking out elements, and make the game even more easy with just the press of a button isn't that great of an idea. perhaps some type of min game that helps you drop some aggro as you're backstabbing would be a better idea. EX: Hit evade and text will pop up telling you "Left, Right, Back, Back, Forward" if you hit all the buttons in the correct order your evade will drop more aggro, or have a less chance of failing.
 
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Kedrin said:
perhaps some type of min game that helps you drop some aggro as you're backstabbing would be a better idea. EX: Hit evade and text will pop up telling you "Left, Right, Back, Back, Forward" if you hit all the buttons in the correct order your evade will drop more aggro, or have a less chance of failing.
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Rogues - the only class to have built-in DDR
 
Draeos said:
jumping tiers was related to the abyss loot, i said i had never attempted MK, ( see the or? yeeaaahh thats what i thought ) and rangers who melee are bad =/ just look at driizz!
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I didn't get that cool 2hs to never use it! Also if I'm not nuking I shouldn't have to jolt while I melee, its science!

Fomelo wise Rotax does a little more DPS than Draeos.

Also use /s 5 when a warrior/pally is tanking any stfu, if eyate and Reinhardt say it works, it works.

Also YEAH JOLT GETS RESISTED SOMETIMES FUCK THAT!
 
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I'm going to make one final reminder to Driizz, Draeos, and the rest of you that are making mean or pointless posts (including some FWF people that know better).

Keep that crap in Loose Platinum or stay off the forums.
 
A long time ago the rogue community suggested changing the AA Skulking Visage from something that is passive and you may not always want (sometimes you may want to actually generate more aggro - to save a cleric, for example) into a base +Hide modifier (allowing you to manage your aggro more effectively). No official opinion was ever heard.

I'm just going to throw that out there and say that maybe this could be a middle-ground for what has been suggested so far. Change Skulking Visage so that it adds +1 hide for each level, or have it increase per level (+1, +2, +3, +4, +5), depending on how powerful/useful the hide modifier is.
 
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