Relics.

[Allielyn]

Supply and demand doesn't really mean a hell of a lot in the context of mob-dropped items . . . . . . . 'sides, it was a side point at the end of my post--just because it has the word "Legacy" in it doesn't mean it's got to drive everyone into a tiff. Sometimes it's hard to see out the ivory tower, that's nothing new.

So in other words, Zhak was using Legacy as an example (since it is his PoV, and he's in Legacy) to show that the supply vs. demand on relics is out of whack, and should be looked at. And in your opinion, supply vs. demand isn't an appropriate measure for relic drop rates. Wasn't it you that brought up a tiff regarding Legacy being mentioned in the first post?

Question:

Anyone think relics shouldn't be more common? I'd be interested to hear dissenting opinion.

Answer:

In regards to relic spells, I rather like the very difficulty of attainability. It's a challenge I enjoy, and seems to prolong the day when I will have to look back and say, "How sad. There's nothing more for me to do, now, except perhaps make a new character."

And an addition:

Additionally, PR and Vene aren't top-tier, but they do have their own share of relics

(i.e. the lack of relics isn't a plague on the server, just a challenge.)

 

[Tempus]

Supply and demand doesn't really mean a hell of a lot in the context of mob-dropped items . . . . . . . 'sides, it was a side point at the end of my post--just because it has the word "Legacy" in it doesn't mean it's got to drive everyone into a tiff. Sometimes it's hard to see out the ivory tower, that's nothing new.

So in other words, Zhak was using Legacy as an example (since it is his PoV, and he's in Legacy) to show that the supply vs. demand on relics is out of whack, and should be looked at. And in your opinion, supply vs. demand isn't an appropriate measure for relic drop rates. Wasn't it you that brought up a tiff regarding Legacy being mentioned in the first post?

Question:

Anyone think relics shouldn't be more common? I'd be interested to hear dissenting opinion.

Answer:

In regards to relic spells, I rather like the very difficulty of attainability. It's a challenge I enjoy, and seems to prolong the day when I will have to look back and say, "How sad. There's nothing more for me to do, now, except perhaps make a new character."

And an addition:

Additionally, PR and Vene aren't top-tier, but they do have their own share of relics

(i.e. the lack of relics isn't a plague on the server, just a challenge.)

I think the point he is making is that at the top most tier Relics should be more common than at any lower tiers, how common that should be is up to the Devs IMO. But, I do agree that as you move to higher and higher content certain rewards so be more readily available in a very general sense. I do not think that you should be able to have all your relics the moment you turn level 65 perhaps if they are supposed to be attained by raid guild for raid guilds you could make some of the more powerful ones NO DROP and turn up the drop rates across the board. Then your casual gamers would ahve access to some but not all Relics via PP, but to attain the most powerful (maybe rename them from Relic to something else as well) you have to raid and loot them.

 

[Aeran]

Then your casual gamers would ahve access to some but not all Relics via PP, but to attain the most powerful (maybe rename them from Relic to something else as well) you have to raid and loot them.

Archaics

 

[Thinkmeats]

Supply and demand doesn't really mean a hell of a lot in the context of mob-dropped items . . . . . . . 'sides, it was a side point at the end of my post--just because it has the word "Legacy" in it doesn't mean it's got to drive everyone into a tiff. Sometimes it's hard to see out the ivory tower, that's nothing new.

So in other words, Zhak was using Legacy as an example (since it is his PoV, and he's in Legacy) to show that the supply vs. demand on relics is out of whack, and should be looked at. And in your opinion, supply vs. demand isn't an appropriate measure for relic drop rates. Wasn't it you that brought up a tiff regarding Legacy being mentioned in the first post?

What in god's name are you on about?

edit: I checked; zhak didn't mention supply on demand, responding to you isn't the same as responding to him, one offhand sentence should not steer the course of the discussion, and syduck:

 

[Allielyn]

Thinkmeats, I count three solid posts where you whine about Zhak using "Legacy as a measuring stick". I don't consider that one offhand comment.

I was trying to show his point of view in a different light, if you missed it: that it IS appropriate to use Legacy as a measuring stick when it comes to the scarcity of relics because Legacy gets the MOST relics. The only way to dismiss Legacy's relic drop rate when discussing the rarity of relics is to say "well the supply and demand don't really mean anything in this context". And I was trying to clarify if that was REALLY what your reply was about.

 

[rab]

Stay on target. Stay on target.

 

[Haphesto]

...so anyways

15ish relic spells a week might sounds like enough to some, but that's the tippiest toppiest guild raiding 5 times a week. Relics should be rare, yes, they're relics after all, but when characters are sitting around waiting months on end without even seeing the spells they need...there's a problem. People can only stand being in a state of yearning for so long before they get frustrated and say "fuck it". So, the solution should be to increase the drop rates enough so that people can actually expect to get their spell within a month, but not so much that the spell no longer feelsl rare and...relikky.

 

[Allielyn]

15ish relic spells in a week DOES sound like a lot, imo. When you consider that a given raid force has only 36 members max, and not all of those are casters, 15 /week starts to sound downright reasonable. The way it is now, some people sometimes have to wait longer for spells, and other spells end up being sold (rarely, but yes they are). And that's a happy medium.

There may be one or two spells that are in high demand because multiple classes can use them. It may be considered reasonable (to me) to increase the relative drop rate for those.

 

[Aeran]

I dont think x/spells a week is that good a method of measurement, since it all depends on how many mobs die, and what caliber they are. I think it would be reasonable if relics were made slightly more common in certain areas. Mobs like Seductress, Taeshlin, Warden, etc should have a relatively high relic drop rate compared to say... DHK. Inner prison should even top that. I think a quick tier-based relic droprate improvement would be pretty effective overall

Regards,
Aeran

 

[Allielyn]

Well, I did mean, 15/week sounds reasonable if you're raiding 5 times/week. Sorry for not clarifying.

 

[Haphesto]

15ish relic spells in a week DOES sound like a lot, imo. When you consider that a given raid force has only 36 members max, and not all of those are casters, 15 /week starts to sound downright reasonable.

What's the total population of the server, 1,000ish? Not all online at the same time or lvl 60+ of course, but enough to create a patience-sapping shortage. How many relics do the other guilds bring in per week, 1-7 altogether? Factor in relics that fall into the category of "nice but not essential", and you have a severe shortage of what are deemed greatly desired and even essential relics.

edit: ^^ oh, nevermind then

 

[gtoo]

Hold up there....I dont know where you guys are getting this 15 relics a week number...

On any given week ( even with the recent changes ) we probably get 4-5 relics. Our luckiest week hasn't even averaged out to 1 / night.

Unless you are saying thats what it should be raised to...

As for other guilds...for Venerate at least, I would say we get one about everyone 2 weeks or so...for PR I dont know, but I think there was a post in this thread that they havent gotten one for a long time.

I like the way relics are now. Maybe they could use a couple percentage more drop rate, but relics are supposed to be rare.

 

[Thinkmeats]

Wow, you guys need to slow down the replies and read the thread a bit closer. 15/spells a week referred to the 15/week figure given by zhak for level 65 spells, not for relics. Allielyn, my initial remark was a one sentence blurb, and the rest is replies, which ironically is what I'm doing now, once again trying to put the thread back on track. There's no need to be Zhak's internet paladin of defensive justice--especially considering there are no attacks to defend him against.

I dont think x/spells a week is that good a method of measurement, since it all depends on how many mobs die, and what caliber they are. I think it would be reasonable if relics were made slightly more common in certain areas. Mobs like Seductress, Taeshlin, Warden, etc should have a relatively high relic drop rate compared to say... DHK. Inner prison should even top that. I think a quick tier-based relic droprate improvement would be pretty effective overall

Regards,
Aeran

I don't know, ideally it seems to me you'd want to be pretty much done with relics by the time you're hitting upper tier PoA and prison and such, and use their relic drops to patch recruits and missing spells. I'm just musing now, though.