Relic nightfire

S

seferon

Dalayan Beginner
Please see this thread in regards to why nightfire got changed in the first place http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forum/index.php?topic=12376.0

Now seeing that druids nightfire got bumped back up to 5.5 second cast time, I believe the arguments here are valid once again I would like to suggest one small change.

first relic nightfire 6.0 cast time 2.5 recovery 2.5 recast(aka 0)
changed relic nightfire 3.0 cast time 2.5 recovery 2.5 recast
current relic nightfire 5.5 cast time 2.5 recovery 2.5 recast
my sugestion nightfire 3.0 cast time 2.5 recovery 5.0 recast

What I think happened is people compared it to flamestrike forgetting to mention that flame strike has a recast on it of 6.5 so doing this would keep it more in line with druid nukes and would also make us take a step back off of mage's toes dps wise. Becuase with the changed nightfire I could put out 500 dps which is ridicules considering mages couldn't.
 
I finally had time to take a throrough look at this, and in retrospect, lowering mage / druid casting times to match that of flamestrike, which had an unusually short casting time, was a mistake. General casting times for nukes are very consistent at around 6 seconds, and this is what mage / druid 60+ nukes have been restored to.

This is effectively a nerf to druids and mages, but druids could do with a bit less DPS. Mages on the other hand, will be parsed to see if an upgrade to their nukes might be in order. Just letting you know what's going on so you don't freak out at "stealth" nerfs.
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Changing recast of flamestrike to 2.5 though.
 
Changing flamestrike will just cause me to change which nuke I use primarily. I liked the idea of having a quick nuke long recast so that occasionally when we were between heals we could help with dps. If all of our nukes have a 6 cast time druids will never nuke for fear of there tank dieing in the 10 seconds that we cant do anything.
 
There is no reason for druids to have the unique status of having all their 60+ nukes be really fast.
 
Druids are second healer shm are 3rd healer. Shm get to have all of there dots on a fast cast time so they can dps while healing, druids no longer can. Cast time on relic dot is 3.5 plus it does dmg over time so less agro. Druids do have a number of spells over the levels that have some decent cast times long recast times so this isn't unheard of for druids. With these changes we become second rate clerics completely, because there is nothing that we can do now besides heal on raids other then enclosure. With the cast times faster with longer recast we could cast a nuke in if the tank was doing decent and be ready to help again if things turn bad. At the moment we cast the nuke and it's 11 seconds before we can get a heal off which is enough time for most raid mobs to kill your mt sa and ta.

edited to help read
 
In any case, any change like this should not be one spell that got an accidental casting time, it should be done across the board, and 5.0 recast is not an adequate tradeoff for a casting time slashed in half.
 
lvl 19 dizziny wind 2.75 cast
lvl 29 combust 3.5
lvl 35 fury of air 2.5
lvl 44 calefaction .5
lvl 54 scoriae 4
lvl 60 moonfire 4.5

These are all presidents for decent cast times on spells some of them have a decent recast which fits with the whole druids main role is healer there second roll is dps.
 
atm looking at it from a purely dps stand point no mods(yes this has nothing to do with my main argument)
as it turns out wrath of the skies is once again better then our relic spell.

scoriae 105dps lvl 54
wildefire 120dps lvl 59
moonfire 164.3 dps lvl 60 spell
flamestrike 163.3dps lvl 63 once recast drops to 2.5
wrath of the skies 194.8dps lvl 64 (outdoor only)
nightfire 187.5dps lvl 65 relic
 
you're complaining about the second best healing class doing 300~ dps?

wrath being outdoor only is a huge detriment to your arguement, half of the zones ( and even more than half of raid zones ) are indoors where you cannot use wrath of the skies
 
whoopsy all those spells were done as if there is no recast timer which there is fixed the numbers for you.

Really my argument isn't about the dps the dps is fine the way it is now, with the 3.5 insta recast we had to much nuking power. My argument is the fact that a druid will no longer ever nuke during a raid anymore, due to the fact that the amount you get out of it fails in comparison to how long it would be till you could again heal the main tank. 11 seconds for those that don't want to do the math thats a long time to not be healing a tank in a raid situation.
 
seferon said:
whoopsy all those spells were done as if there is no recast timer which there is fixed the numbers for you.

Really my argument isn't about the dps the dps is fine the way it is now, with the 3.5 insta recast we had to much nuking power. My argument is the fact that a druid will no longer ever nuke during a raid anymore, due to the fact that the amount you get out of it fails in comparison to how long it would be till you could again heal the main tank. 11 seconds for those that don't want to do the math thats a long time to not be healing a tank in a raid situation.
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Through the end of upper thaz, I can tell you that Forsaken did this with 4 healers.. sometimes we'd get 5 but mostly we just used 4. Just because you personally wouldn't nuke after the cast time change was put in doesn't mean that other druids wouldn't. You can take 9 healers on a raid and if you've got 4-5 there's no reason a druid couldn't nuke to their hearts content.

If you can do 200 base damage with the spell, you can probably still throw down 350-400 dps. You're not figuring in DI7, aa's, cunning, fiery warcry of tarhyl, ( or w/e the spell is ) or any crits.

Also, you're not taking in to account the quick nuke AA that druids get nor are you considering CSI.

Quick damage is 2%, 5%, 10% per level. I really have no idea why you only have quick damage 1 if you like nuking so much but that's irrelevant.

With csi7 and quick damage 3, you're casting relic nightfire in 4.2 seconds.

I think the major issue with this change is that you will no longer nuke on raids.

If you don't think a druid will use nightfire when it's only 4.2 ( or even 5 ) seconds then you're sadly mistaken Seferon. I really don't think you have a valid arguement here.

Disclaimer: I realize not every druid in the game has csi7 and quick damage 3, but it's possible to have the nuke down to 4.2 seconds.
 
I'm happy with my druid's nightfire, which currently has 4.3 sec casting time and I still nuked on raid yesterday :dumb:
 
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