Relic drops

[Laksha]

Can we do something about Relics, perhaps for them to drop more common from bigger raid mobs, so that the guild that are trying to get up dont have to suffer from the big guilds killing their mobs for relics? it is a pain in the ass getting a raid together to kill a lvl 68+ mob from a small guild so some uber guild comes with a single group and kills it, drops rot, just so that they can have a chance for relics. I'm disgusted by this. Thanks. either making the relics drop more common from higher end mobs or adding more lvl 68 raid mobs for the smaller guilds that can't raid everyday, or whatever solution you staff can come up for this is very appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[Brimztone]

Perhaps adding a higher chance of relic drops like the Diversity code(for only one drop however) for how many classes you have in the raid?

I don't think I have seen a relic drop in months, compared them dropping like candy before that. There was huge jump from dropping all the time to never dropping it seems.

 

[Laksha]

It seriously is screwing up those guilds that are starting to raid and such, should consider my post.

 

[phlit]

Relic drops are already varied by the difficulty of the mob. In fact, they have been for ages and ages.

The relic drop rate, however, is a separate issue. It's been going down and down, it seems, for a long time. At the minute, it's at it's lowest. In theory their drop rate halved when SoD2 came about(I guess(?)), though it seems to me, with no data right now to back me up, that in fact the drop rate was more than halved.

As for guilds killing lower targets for a chance to get relics, well... It's hardly a new 'issue'. Using the Diversity chance modifier for relic drops is an idea - a better one perhaps is simply considering the # of people in a raid/group for a kill. It doesn't solve the issue totally though, there's no real reason why a guild wont just bring more people to kill that easier mob, and also it punishes those killing legitimate tier'd targets with a non-full raid.

Relics are basically better than any single item of loot you'll ever get as a relic user, so expect them to be in huge demand. The demand drives guilds or groups to kill certain mobs in order to get a shot at a relic drop. Making relics more common, however, is detrimental to their 'status' and rarity, which isn't what Wiz seems to want, although it does go someway towards alleviating the problem of demand, and thus of the will to kill 'easy' targets for relic drop chances.

 

[Andorraa]

Philt is definitely right, the relic chance is at its all-time low it seems. Since August, we've gotten 15 of them. We're not doing stormkeep either; Full NDHK clears and semi-full torment clears yields usually zero relics.

The last one we got was on February 6, and the time before that it was January 10th. That's nearly a month between relic drops, and it's taking us forever to advance the people we need to relic up.

I mentioned it earlier that relics needed to be looked at, about a month after 2.0 went into effect. I don't know if anything was done though.

Laksha, what zones are you raiding?

 

[JayelleNephilim]

I think that the random number generator is perhaps just working against you. DG has seen quite about a dozen or more relics in the last 3 weeks alone.

When things were changed to 2.0 ruleset the spawn times of mobs were decreased, so I don't see how 2.0 has anything to do with decreased relic rates. Again I think it's just incredibly bad luck.

When you are able to do things like Gnok, Lord Z and Firkaal then you will have a small chance of seeing relics. Until you are of ability to clear PoT, PoA and NDHK I don't think you should have high expectations of fully relicing your guild. Even then, you could be unlucky and clear the zone and see none.

I would not support the increased rate of relic drops, and I say this as a caster who currently has no relics.

 

[TapeinV]

I think that the random number generator is perhaps just working against you. DG has seen quite about a dozen or more relics in the last 3 weeks alone.

When things were changed to 2.0 ruleset the spawn times of mobs were decreased, so I don't see how 2.0 has anything to do with decreased relic rates. Again I think it's just incredibly bad luck.

When you are able to do things like Gnok, Lord Z and Firkaal then you will have a small chance of seeing relics. Until you are of ability to clear PoT, PoA and NDHK I don't think you should have high expectations of fully relicing your guild. Even then, you could be unlucky and clear the zone and see none.

I would not support the increased rate of relic drops, and I say this as a caster who currently has no relics.

The thing about DG getting a dozen or so relics in the past three weeks is DG usually raids nearly every night. So essentially, what that makes it out to be is in order for classes like necros and magicians to see relics (argueably, cleric/druid/shaman/wizard/enchanter/bard relics are much more important, in no specific order), then a guild needs to be raiding every single night hitting max targets?

 

[JayelleNephilim]

We raid about 4 nights a week, but that's not the point. No, I do not think a guild should have to raid every night max targets to get relics, but I also don't think they should be dropping at a higher rate.

We saw a handful of relics when we still were leading Revelation (after the 2.0 changes), and that was a guild that raided very casually and only killed relic dropping mobs such as Gnok, Lord Z and Firkaal. The greater point I was making is this: my opinion is that the drop rate is fine post 2.0. Some guilds have just been severely unlucky with getting them.

 

[vistachiri]

The thing about DG getting a dozen or so relics in the past three weeks is DG usually raids nearly every night. So essentially, what that makes it out to be is in order for classes like necros and magicians to see relics (argueably, cleric/druid/shaman/wizard/enchanter/bard relics are much more important, in no specific order), then a guild needs to be raiding every single night hitting max targets?

Agreed, a dozen relics in 3 weeks isn't a ton when we consider say out of a week dg probably raids around 4 nights. Lets say we're talking 4-5 targets per night. 16-20 mobs with a chance /week.. We raid 3, with one night being optional as many of us have other obligations (work etc). So we're talking approximately 12 targets with a chance (although most of the time it's 3 targets due to people having to go to bed, work in the morning etc, so 9). That combined with the usefullness of certain relics...and it pretty much does set it up so that classes like necro and mage pretty much are relegated to backburner for a year or two. One would get faaar more usefullness out of fully relic'ing 1 enchanter, 2 clerics, 2 shamans, 2 druids, 1 bard, and 2 or more wizards first, depending on guild setup and how many you have. Thus we're talking approximately 50 relics before some classes should even be seeing theirs imo. So even if we say put only one person fully reliced, that's still 30 relics before necro and mage would even make the list. Based on the current patter we've been seeing, and allowing for a larger chance from mobs on a zone progression basis...
6 months=> 6 relics
Upgrade to 2/monthish 6 months later=>12 relics
end of a year from now 18 relics
year 2=> 3/month for fun=> 6 months 18 more

so in a year and a half just fully relic'ing 1 person of each class...There will still be 4 to go. That is just too ridiculously long. In addition one thing I'm betting was never taken into account with the 2.0 changeover, say you have 24 people raiding (some boxing so 36 characters), say 5 go to bed. You still have a raidforce, and one capable of taking down mobs with a relic chance. With 2.0 say you run into the same situation 12 people raiding, 6 of them boxing 5 people go to bed (non-boxers even) you're left, with a maximum of 14 people, even if everyone boxes someone = raid pretty much over. Why would this matter? Simple more targets on any given night, combined with a higher relic chance probably is a huge factor in the difference that's been observed.


Also yes relic usefullness pretty much ensures that any guild on the way up would have to be mind bogglingly insane to award relics to necros or mages before every other class had their better relics, and with the random system I'd have to say was fully relic'ed (at least 1 person of each I mean) and possibly in the case of clerics at least I'd say 1 fully, 1 reliced until they get relic light and the quickheal, and possibly the hot..

 

[phlit]

We raid about 4 nights a week, but that's not the point. No, I do not think a guild should have to raid every night max targets to get relics, but I also don't think they should be dropping at a higher rate.

I think the drop rate should be upped, or at least, it should be seriously looked at. Perhaps the random number generator is working in your favour, rather than against everyone else (if this seems to be the case, who knows how representative this thread is).

Either way, in regards to the drop rate being looked at, we(PR) can provide detailed drop rates if needed (would be a pain in the a$$ to go through logs to see who died/who dropped relics/etc/etc - but it's possible - also, and easier, we have a list of how many relics have dropped since we began raiding most nights two or three months back, and also before SoD2, raiding a similar amount - even easier, Wiz could just confirm that the relic drop rate chance was halved with SoD2 in accordance with halving loot/raidsize, and therefore, in theory, the 'literal' drop rate is unchanged since pre SoD2).

 

[rab]

Relic drop rate was halved when everything else was halved.

 

[tinkaa]

I think the drop rate is fine, but really random. You also had to equip twice as many people with relics before.

We got 26 relics on raids since the end of September, 5 of them in last week.

Remember there are some 1-groupable mobs that drop relics as well. We got 2 this way and only killed the mob a few times.

 

[futur3]

I also think the droprate is fine. Days when we get 2 relics per raid arent that rare, we even got 3 one time. Sometimes i love the random generator, sometimesi hate it

 

[Brimztone]

I also think the droprate is fine. Days when we get 2 relics per raid arent that rare, we even got 3 one time. Sometimes i love the random generator, sometimesi hate it

I hate the random number generator. Its been months since I have seen a relic drop. Even through full NDHK clears, SE clears, and some Torment raiding.

 

[Dynak]

The relic drop rate on current mobs seems fine, the only problem now is that you have more guilds that can do the same mobs with 18 people, where in the past, it took 36 people. What about adding back a very slight chance for relic drops from some mid tiered enounters like Yinazra, Lord Riz/Viz, AWT, Lavascale (then he may actually get killed again)... etc. Any idea's there?

 

[Cinn]

The relic drop rate on current mobs seems fine, the only problem now is that you have more guilds that can do the same mobs with 18 people, where in the past, it took 36 people. What about adding back a very slight chance for relic drops from some mid tiered enounters like Yinazra, Lord Riz/Viz, AWT, Lavascale (then he may actually get killed again)... etc. Any idea's there?

That would only lead to more 6-8 man groups killing low end raid mobs for relics. The drop rate seems fine to me atm. Relics are huge upgrades to all classes that get them. They shouldnt drop like candy.

 

[vistachiri]

That would only lead to more 6-8 man groups killing low end raid mobs for relics. The drop rate seems fine to me atm. Relics are huge upgrades to all classes that get them. They shouldnt drop like candy.

"huge upgrade" Depends on the relic and the class.

Oh and I doubt even with a relic chance lavascale will ever be killed again. His loot just simply isn't worth it, he was only hit because his stuff was droppable before, and even then was up quite often. But I digress.

 

[Laksha]

okey so nothing is going to be done to the fact that the smaller guilds, like mine who dosent have the time to raid so often because most people have RL things to do, which are being affected by big guilds taking down their targets, how is this issue going to be addressed? We will also like to see relics but damn we finally got a chance to take down Hsarg after months of waitting. Also Gnok and lava scale seriously need to be looked upt they defenetelly are not tier 1 mobs and I agree for their difficulty they have now their loot is not worth it,(and not everything got halved mobs still hitting as hard as they used to). Hsarg is ALOT easier than Gnok and has much better drops.

 

[Aaubert]

none the less, laksha's original point is that higher level guilds take down lower level mobs, knowing that any gear will rot, but hope for a relic, and get 1 out of every 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 15 kills.

which really decreases the pool of mobs that lower level guilds can kill.

 

[Andorraa]

none the less, laksha's original point is that higher level guilds take down lower level mobs, knowing that any gear will rot, but hope for a relic, and get 1 out of every 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 15 kills.

which really decreases the pool of mobs that lower level guilds can kill.

And that's the grand problem that's being addressed here.

Relic drop rate NEEDS to be increased so that smaller targets for smaller guilds can be up to raid. We often find that mobs on our Tier are being killed by guilds that are well above our tier, simply for relics. With a higher drop rate, these mobs would be up for us to kill, rather than have the loot rot for the higher tiered guilds.