recruiting new players?

[phroggonalog]

Also, we should jail people who say in ooc: "check the wiki, duh!"

Sorry, but when people ask for spell description after spell description after spell description at level 1 and then level 4 and then 8 and/or ask what the best race is for class X, telling them to check the wiki is the best answer. There are people who are snarky with their 'check the wiki' replies, sure, but it is the snarkiness that is the problem, not the suggestion of checking the wiki.

and yes I am assuming you are serious with the jailing and not being funny

 

[Tarutao]

She's not being funny, and when she was Lead GM, she tossed that idea around a couple of times.

It's one of the few things we don't agree on, but the "duh" part does cross over into "being a dick to new players" which isn't going to be okay with me, either.

 

[donfolstar3]

Everyone I have ever convinced to try out SoD has quit after a short time. Most of them had similar, if not the exact same, grievances and suggestions:

THINGS THAT MIGHT BE CHANGED:
-Combat lvl 1-? is a miserable experiment in misses and hitting for crap damage (without a twink weapon). The default weapons are bad and saying "its okay, just deal with it until you save many plats then search through dozens and dozens of vendors and hope one is selling [mastercrafted silver?] weapons (they aren't)- then you only have to deal with constant misses" is worse. Nothing screams high adventure quite like missing a rat 9 times then hitting it for ~10%.
=Give a better default weapon OR make really low level all/all quests for decent weapons
=Adjust miss rates. Yes, lowbies are supposed to be learning and not very adept at fighting, but it is terrible design from a "games should be fun" stand point and an instant turn off for new players so that... grass snakes can seem more formidable?

-Soloing and duoing with certain classes is boring/frustrating/impossible
=Those new cleric spells? Yes please! More new leveling stuff like that for other classes.


THINGS THAT PROBABLY WILL NOT:
-There is something utterly soul crushing about spending hours and hours and hours completing your newbie armor quests (if your class/race is so fortunate) then seeing someone /auction a long list of items with no lvl req. that each individually have more stats than your entire armor set. The relative ease of twinking for established players, especially since Iksith, versus the required time investment, wiki research, and /fingers crossed for drops (and groups) for adepts has grown totally out of balance.
=Bump up the stats on newbie quest gear, or quest gear in general.
=Adepts should drop more items. With respawn times and the difficulty in getting adept groups together you will probably get one shot at any given (<55) adept without using explock- /vomit. Having Adepts drop most, if not all, of their loot table every time would make adepts more popular/fun and not at all even the twink v. new player playing field.

-Zone internal level ranges are not smooth. This is directed at zones like SI and BB where we would be clearing light blues and green placeholders outside and up top respectively waiting to ding because going inside and getting gang banged by yellows or downstairs so 'red-evoker-kills-everyone-lol' sucks. The other option would be to run to another zone for two levels then come back or log out for a while then hope respawns were on the lower end of the level range. Both "solutions" suck almost as much as the red evoker.
=The problem is in lower level dungeons where spawns have too large a level range. The difference between 8 and 12 is really flipping huge compared to 48 and 52. Also, if area one has 5-10 and area two has 10-15 you can easily run into an unclearable mess of 13+. This is really only an issue in a handful of zones, but impacts low levels (read: new players).


THINGS THAT WILL GET ME RIDICULED AND SPIT ON FOR REPEATING:
-XP rates are too slow. Claims that leveling is faster here than on another somewhat related game have been universally denied by everyone coming over from that other game. Additionally, claims that repeating the same action over and over and over (aka, grinding) somehow equals skill were not received well.
=Make double xp weekends a thing that actually happen with reasonable regularity. The Facebook 500 weekend happened at a great time as my brother was playing and really enjoyed "slightly too high" xp and the ease of finding groups. A few weeks later, when it became readily apparent the criteria for the next double xp weekend was ridiculous and months if not years away disillusion quickly set in.
=More xp potions. Quested (cannot just buy), repeatable, and only good up to 51 or 64.

-Whereas WoW creates an inflated sense of accomplishment by showering the player with phat lewtz and awesomeness, SoD creates an inflated sense of difficulty by showering the player with scarcity and meaningless inconvenience.
=I have no idea. This seems to be a general design philosophy that some people like (douches? masochists? respectively) and some people spend an entire evening drunkenly berating me about like I made the games.
=Here is a question that I could not answer- "how long would it take a new player who does not have: twink items, friends to port/buff/PL them, intimate knowledge of the best leveling spots/gear/quests, or the ability to box to get to 65? codex? and how contingent is your answer on lucking out with getting groups and falling in with a good guild?"


Again, this is what my friends that have tried SoD said. I am inclined to agree with them on many of these issues, but that is besides the point. What is the point is that they were "new players" and had these problems with the game. If the goal is to get new players to come and want to stay...

 

[Mythryn]

There just aren't that many players out there who have the desire (or time) to play what SoD has turned into. Simple. The gamers that are out there looking for emulated games and such don't want to have to sit around and get their balls crushed for hours on end just to get to a point where they can get their balls crushed slightly less.

 

[Slaariel]

it has always been my feeling that sod was meant to be like live from the beginning only better and with more content. exp compared to live in 1999 is MUCH FASTER anyone who says otherwise is just wrong. compared to live TODAY perhaps it is slower here but that is on them not us.

in the same vein, live was not meant for 'casual' players. BUT here on sod you really can get along with a group of friends that logs on and plays a couple hours a week or whatever. i've been thinking about adjusting down the spawn timer for most low level adepts (because i agree with you on this) and maybe i will get around to that. with adepts, tradeskill items, and 6-man content, you can get really really far with 6 people and casual playtimes. maybe that point is not emphasized enough in our official literature, not sure. can you get to the end of the game and see all content with only 6 people? not on your own! but you can definitely get yourself to a point where any pickup raid would be happy to have you along stats-wise and there are pick-up raids basically every day.

or you could start your own guild. this is sorta a tangent i know but my guild started with 2 raid days a week and basically held to that schedule all the way up. that's 2 days a week! pretty casual! saw most of the available raid content and beat it! but peggle it is not, i guess.

newbie life is only hard for your first guy and that's not because of twinking (though that helps) it is because you do not know how the game works... that you could exp lock at level 1, farm bone chips, buy a mithril 2h sword and a bagful of potions, and solo rabb the rat if you wanted to! PART of this problem is that the alchemists around stop making low level potions but on my last character i used them nonstop! learning all this stuff is fun and i certainly did not know it on my first character at all. that one hit level 65 with a cloth cape and only a passing familiarity with most of the game so i dunno.

most items have req level, also, but i know there are some gaps where this doesn't apply. unless you are talking about mithril stuff, but that is good up to level 30+ or whatever it's not meant to be had at level 1 (though, again, even on your first character, you could make this happen if you wanted to).

lastly! this is just me and how i approached the game, but i never ever had my eye on killing tier 13 content or whatever when i started out! i said oh me o my maybe 1 day i will be lucky enough to see all the rest of the game but i never ever not even once thought to myself 'ugh i will literally never see this because the road is too long!!!' it's a big game and if you make friends here you will one day see all of the content. even if you just play once or twice a week!

i know that does not address all your points but there you go i guess i kept typing for a bit too long also i just woke up let's hope this is at all readable.

 

[donfolstar3]

There just aren't that many players out there who have the desire (or time) to play what SoD has turned into. Simple. The gamers that are out there looking for emulated games and such don't want to have to sit around and get their balls crushed for hours on end just to get to a point where they can get their balls crushed slightly less.

Agreed. Or, to be slightly more accurate, "to play what SoD has NOT turned into"

MMOs have changed a lot in the last 12 years. Live in 1999 had a lot of 'make work' elements to it (grinding, hell levels, rigid classes/group structure, and the whole idea of raiding- but that is another can of worms) included to improve subscriber ($$$) retention by eating up time and limiting the need for new content. SoD still reflects a lot of those ideas, albeit to a much lesser degree than the original product- faster grinding and reasonable sized raids the most noteworthy. Newer MMOs have moved further and further from this model and have made games more accessible and ummm, enjoyable.

The sandbox kings of SoD really have a choice- continue to bank on the ever dwindling nostalgia crowd or make efforts to "modernize" at least the early game (preAAs). If that part of the game is not welcoming, fun, and rewarding for new players with contemporary MMO expectations then all the account drives and Facebook propaganda in the world will not retain new players long.

 

[phroggonalog]

How about we just start everyone at 65 with 250 weapon/casting skills and a full set of tradeskilled armor. That would seem to be the solution.

edit: pre-Relic spells too.

this would solve the problem of there being no low-level content

 

[Gargate]

How about a new type of adepts for lvls 1-55, 6 man only with gear similar to the adepts that exist already.

 

[Tarutao]

I've taken the liberty to quote just a couple pieces of your post that I'd like to respond to.

The default weapons . . . vendors . . . mastercrafted silver?

Adepts should drop more items.

Zone internal level ranges are not smooth

It's been a while since I made a batch of mastercrated silver weapons. Those are decent and much cheaper than mithril. I should probably make some and put them on a vendor.

I would support the level 10-54 Adepts dropping an additional loot, but that'd be an argument for the Dev team, and I'm not on the Dev team.

Zone internal level ranges tend not to be smooth for the same reason the New/Old Area Bonus/Penalty exists. It's not desired that you spend 10 levels in the same zone (the cutoff point to put you at -25%).

 

[Boehm]

There just aren't that many players out there who have the desire (or time) to play what SoD has turned into. Simple. The gamers that are out there looking for emulated games and such don't want to have to sit around and get their balls crushed for hours on end just to get to a point where they can get their balls crushed slightly less.

I think that you are wrong. The players who used to come to try sod are now playing p1999 and getting their nuts crushed harder. But yes, if they want to make the game crazy popular it should just shit out loot and gold stars for showing up. those players will play for about a week.

Im suprised no one recommended h2h for the poor. i guess its because mithril is so crazy good from 1-20

 

[Animand]

(5) Relay the power of early level Hand to Hand and Bind Wounds for all classes

Nah, it's in there. Hand to hand is all my casters/bard use until at least 30.

 

[Mythryn]

I think that you are wrong. The players who used to come to try sod are now playing p1999 and getting their nuts crushed harder.

Yes, P99 has quite a draw to some people, but they're reliving something from their past. Or getting their nuts crushed with almost 3 times the people SoD has, so groups aren't a problem. Plus, there's the draw of drama, KSing, camp stealing, training and all that trainwreck shit that SoD mostly got rid of years ago. People always enjoy some drama, and the guild drama on P99 is hilarious to partake in, and read about. Not to mention, the difficulty is part of the draw. It was the main reason I played, for sure.

if they want to make the game crazy popular it should just shit out loot and gold stars for showing up. those players will play for about a week.

While this obviously isn't the solution, I think something needs to happen if SoD want's to attract and retain new players. You can advertise to draw new players in all you want, but if the first few experiences that those players get suck, they aren't going to stick around for very long.

 

[GenXnrD]

You know that saying, if your friends don't like you because of that, they're not your friends. That can apply to this game. If the player doesn't like the way it is run here they have WoW, EQ Live, Rift, ect. to choose from.
While WR/SoD does not have the population of P99, WoW, Rift, it's been around about a decade with next to no advertising and has had a steady, and loyal population that actually donates instead of mooching. (I was a donator once. I'll think of an excuse why I don't later.) Using logic, if SoD did a little advertising it may boost the population to a better level. If some of those players leave, it's ok, the ones that stay are the players, we the players, want. Ya know, different strokes for different folks. SoD is a game that will attract a certain player, and there are more than enough of them out in the world, they just have to know SoD exists.

P.S. With the donations SoD gets, they can't be everything to everyone. The other big for profit games can because they have the fund to push the devs. I personally believe that the SoD devs are payed with BJs to do what they do for free. If not they should. Just my opinion.

 

[Goldfolk]

I do think that this is a very important topic now and needs everyone to contribute because server numbers seem to be dropping.

As a general point I think people need to be given time to get addicted and to learn to play the game without being put off by distractions so my suggestions are:

Make it easier to solo from 20-40 or even 50 because it is really getting difficult to form groups at times.

Ease death fatigue restrictions for low levels

At risk of being ridiculed further make MoP easier UNTIL LEVEL 40 OR EVEN 50 (note capitals)

Hopefully, none of these are thought of as game breakers but just ways to get people really hooked.

Also I am sure there are lots of other little tweaks that would ease the games for people who have never played before and don't understand even the basic principles. For hard core players they rush so fast through early leevls they won't be affected anyway.

 

[Tarutao]

So, I've been chasing people around the MoP.

I've taught several people:

(1) How to set your clip plane to 100% so you can see

(2) How to open the map

(3) How to scroll out the map

(4) How to turn off the height filter

(5) How to determine which direction you're going by seeing which way the little plus sign moves when you move your character a couple steps forward and use that information to figure out which way you need to go to reach the destination you can see on your map.

-----

Now, granted, 5 is just sad. Moving along, (2) (3) (4) weren't surprising, but (1) was unexpected.

It makes me wonder how many "the MoP is too hard" complaints are from people that don't know basic things like how to duck or the difference between /say and /tell. Those people don't need the MoP to be easier, but rather they need a tutorial on the most basic controls and options and commands of the game.

Still offering Fame Points to Youtube instructional videos for the MoP... maybe I should offer Fame Points to Youtube instructional videos of basics like "How to Talk in Guild Chat".

I know, I sound like I'm being condescending, but I promise I'm not (minus point 5). I'm being non-sarcastic and genuine that this is an issue that is really only kinda addressed on the wiki (see Controls Commands Hotkeys on the front page) and not really focused on since everyone is expected to have bought the game (and probably played it before or has a friend that did and can show them the ropes).

 

[Goldfolk]

Think that was exactly point I was trying to make, namely, that some people have very little game knowledge when they start.

Giving them some lowbie loving would enable them to get acclimatised to the game and addicted.

Oh another suggestion, letting them start with some basic armor.

 

[fuwok]

So, I've been chasing people around the MoP.

I've taught several people:

I want it to be clear that this post I am writing isn't sarcastic, even though it might sound that way.

SoD is based on a really arcane game which is definitely part of the "hard games" era. Every game that you start today has a 20 or 30 minute tutorial wherein I rip my hair out while being forced to practice ducking under a pipe or walking backwards.

They put these tutorials in every game because by and large the consumer would not be able to figure these things out since they are living in a barely conscious state from having melted their brain with soda pop and videogames. Therefore, and for all these reasons, I think maybe it is a good idea to make a fairly short but in depth tutorial video and I will give you a kiss if you are the person who does it.

 

[Slaariel]

i have added keepers (neutered ones don't worry) and a healer tutorial to the dream this is me keeping up with the times and being really cool

also boosted some newbie zone exp mods (kaladim had 0 mod that is insanity)

andsome other stuff hope all the new players reading this thread appreciate that

 

[darksabbath]

Kaladim finally getting a +mod? hot damn!! (One of my fav low/mid dungeons on SoD). Tutorial stuff int he dream is a quality addition.

 

[Felibar]

Nothing really to add to this, but do want to say that I ABSOLUTELY loved the Newport line of Rogue newbie quests, not to mention how much I love Breaking and Entering. Yay profit! (and many deaths because I didn't notice the guard)

The whole rogue line in Newport was what really hooked me on this server, just fyi. Well mostly that, but truly love all the extra little touches you guys put into it. Like the skill points you get when you level and such. Love it and I cannot wait till I get a little more free time to get back at the leveling and seeing more of your content.