Rangers - Archery

Hi, I play a low level ranger and I would like to chime in on this as it seems the high end game (AM etc) has plenty of discussion going for it.

My problem with the whole discussion is this. It's all about change this AA or that AA, but what about the low level rangers that don't want to be green tree loving rogues - backstab - evade? The speacilty that is archery, if it is to be associated with and distributed to rangers, should in my opinion be done so in a unique and even manner spanning the whole of a rangers lifespan, topped off with AA's worthy of the time it takes to aquire them.

Yea, the increase in damage helped ranger bow damage, which is good, but it helped everyone, which is also good. At the same time, however, it didn't change the fact that there is nothing unique or better about a rangers ability to use a bow pre 55 65.

My suggestions will be based around the idea of making archery better for the young rangers without diving into end game rangerdom since I know little of it.

1. Enable Trueshot for Rangers at level 1:

Why not? Sks and pallies don't have to wait till 55 for their timered abilites. Not possible to do this? Create a level 1 ranger spell called Trueshot(becomes disabled at 55) with same or slightly modfied properties :D

---- Gives lower level rangers a unique archery related skill.

2. Switch the level 20 and 45? 2 arrow style level reqs:

Adjust occordinaly(as in stamina lvl req rises with level or whatever) without messing with how it works 45?+

--- This gives the low level ranger something to work for and a unique archery ability. It's easy to balance because the ability scales with level and equip. High levels already have it so it doesn't add to the high end power curve, and low levels have weaker skill, bows, arrows etc so the effect is weaker.

Alternate idea: Replace the 20th style with something actually good that has to do with archery.

3. Non moving, non rooted ranger archery damage adjustment:

I don't know but this seems like such a simple and good idea to me. The following numbers are examples nothing more.

Level 19-29: 6x mod

Level 30-39: 5.5x mod

Level 40-49: 4x mod

Level 50-54: 3x mod

Level 55- 65: 2x mod(whatever current mod is)


---- You see I don't think the awnser is always going to be in abilities that get better with time because of the difficulty in balancing equipment and sudden addition of AA's etc. This idea of upwards degression should be considered with relation to the implementation of both previous ideas and any other ability that needs to be scaled properly for high level balance. This allows for implementation of low end content without damaging high end content.


Well, that's just a few of the ideas I have. Hope you like them.
 
That is correct. The damage bonus aren't working - on purpose. The combat system on WR is different from live, therefor we aren't in need of damage bonuses.
 
May I ask why is WR combat system different from live? Do you mean that you use different formulas to calculate damage?
 
It's hard-wired into the client to show a damage bonus related to the delay of the weapon. We can't remove it.
 
Bonus damage doesn't work? Hmm..what about the other damage one? Like Magic Dmg 'X" or Fire Damage "X"....etc. Not the same thing right? And that works?
 
Well, as I said. They aren't working because our attack formulars and such work differently. Bane damages and such should work.
 
The first char I played in EQ was a ranger, and the biggest gripe I had with em was the fact that you couldn't efficiently use bows pre AM3/EQ. I think it would be great to see archery be the highest damage a ranger could do 1-65. Archers are a staple to any fantasy world and the ranger being a woodsman/hunter type just seems to imply an excellent archery skill. You dont hunt with dual wield =P.

Warcraft was able to do this with the Hunter class. I really liked how a hunters ranged dps was his best, with melee being less. It just seems to make sense that an excellent archer might only be a good melee. If I wanted to be the supreme melee dps'er, I would probly be more interested in playing a rogue.

I would personally like to see a rangers base range dmg be linear 1-65 and be on par with other classes melee dps. I dont really have any good ideas for am1-3 other than they be onpar with other classes dmg increase. Not only that, but people pick those up solely to be able to use archery. If archery were already a viable source of dps pre am3/eq rangers might honestly not be interested in picking those up and go for other AAs. We live in the mindset of EQlive were every ranger HAS to get those skills. This doesnt have to be EQlive. I would be ecstatic if archery was linear 1-65 and AM1-3 was only a slight increase. I probly wouldnt even buy em and go for LR5! or something. There are a ton of great AA's besides AM. It would be nice to know you could actually choose your first AA's instead of having your first 45 pts already chosen. I hated the way EQ was "get to 60 so you begin playing". With rangers, it was get to 60 + 45 aas. It would be so cool to be standing back, plucking your bow in your first blackburrow group =)

I was also reading a post about putting in triple attack for rangers, so that the ones without am3/eq could still get groups. If you made archery dps linear instead of a flat line with a huge spike at the end(as in EQlive), the problem would be solved. Maybe some rangers want to melee, but I dont. Thats the reason I chose this class. So to sum up my personal opinion,

1. Make archery the MAIN dps damage for a ranger 1-65.
2. Make it on par with with other classes melee dps.
3. Make rangers melee dps, be 20-30% less than ranged, whatever is fair to balance it out.
4. If this is implemented you could just completely delete/erase am1-3 and I wouldn't even care. The ONLY reason people pick up am1-3 is to even be able to use archery.

I understand this would be a complete overhaul to what we are familiar with from EQlive, but I would say thats the point of playing on an emulator instead of EQlive =)

Zoink
5 Ranger
 
And the Dead shall live...

Anyways, the only issue with making Bow Damage be on par 1-65 is that if AM is left in - then it needs to be changed in function or the ranger will then kill melees in DPS (if their bow already does the same damage).

Also, if Ranger melee skills are reduced, then low level rangers are forced to use archery which is not exactly cheap. So in order to do this, Rangers need to spend majority of their time farming money so they can afford arrows. Or if you lower the cost of arrows, then you change the economy of the ranger and you not only make AM less useful but EQ as well.

I would like to see archery improved, but increasing archery DPS is not the answer in my opinion. I would say reducing the cost of fletching would be the most viable (at least for low end fletching or make arrows more easily obtainable without having a mage nearby). This allows a ranger to roleplay with archery throughout leveling but doesnt jeapordize balancing issues both between classes and with perhaps the 2 most anticipated Ranger AA's.

Another suggestion that I think would be interesting - allow Ranger's to forage arrows in wooden zones.
 
shooting an NPC with an arrow should somehow allow for arrows to drop as loot from its corpse. Of course, only if that could be coded. Perhaps each succesful archery 'strike' on an NPC could give a super low % chance of an arrow spawning on the ground there maybe?
 
dbum said:
Anyways, the only issue with making Bow Damage be on par 1-65 is that if AM is left in - then it needs to be changed in function or the ranger will then kill melees in DPS (if their bow already does the same damage).
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I have no objections personally to am3 being changed to a non dps increasing function, or a fairly reduced increase in dps from am3.

dbum said:
Also, if Ranger melee skills are reduced, then low level rangers are forced to use archery which is not exactly cheap. So in order to do this, Rangers need to spend majority of their time farming money so they can afford arrows. Or if you lower the cost of arrows, then you change the economy of the ranger and you not only make AM less useful but EQ as well.
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If archery is not a viable option atm, then there is no economy for arrows anyway. I would have no problem making and using arrows as long as the cost was adjusted so it wasnt too out of control. AM being less useful would not bother me too much if I could use archery as viable dps from lvl 1. Also, with highend arrows that are hard to produce and are therefore somewhat rare, EQ is definitly worth it.

dbum said:
I would like to see archery improved, but increasing archery DPS is not the answer in my opinion. I would say reducing the cost of fletching would be the most viable (at least for low end fletching or make arrows more easily obtainable without having a mage nearby). This allows a ranger to roleplay with archery throughout leveling but doesnt jeapordize balancing issues both between classes and with perhaps the 2 most anticipated Ranger AA's.
Click to expand...

I guess I dont see what the balancing issue would be, if you made a rangers archery dps comparable to what his dps would be in the current system with melee. As long as the dps is the same, who cares where its coming from? The reason AM3/EQ are the 2 most anticipated AA's is cause finally after 65 lvls and 45 AAs you actually get to use a bow! When you open up your character window, the ranger symbol is a bow, yet most rangers never get to the point to use one. If being able to use a bow 1-65 means the dismantling of AM3, then I'm all for it. You can just delete em and not replace them with something else for all I care. Hunters in WoW get viable ranged attack from day one and it seems to work pretty good.

The only problem I forsee is carting around all that ammo. In wow it stacks in stacks of 200. You can burn through stacks of 20 pretty quick. Not sure if this is something that could be recoded. Or maybe having quivers with 40slots =P
 
Sorry to be a stick in the mud, but I disagree wholeheartedly with the last few posts. In my opinion everything is perfect and dandy and not a single thing should be touched regarding archery.

I basically leveled up from 1-60 bowkiting solo. I bought the cheapest 1 dmg arrows in mass (5 bags or so at a time) and just bowkited every mob, and exp flew. I did NOT have to farm for money to buy them (a stack is like 5 silver), since if you hunt the right mobs (which still give awesome exp) you'll be able to cover those costs and then some. At level 50-60 I was extremely happy with my archery damage, even though I didnt have EQ/AM3. At 65 pre-EQ/AM3 I was still happy. If we made those AA's useless or non-DPS by having our archery start out better than it already is, then no one will have to work to get really good at archery. In my opinion you get what you work for, getting 65 and 45 AA's to get the epitome of ranger AA's and have your archery go through the roof is incredibly fair. At lower levels you just arent as good, because your skills arent as good, because you're not using the best equiptment, because you dont have the AA's - this is how it should be.

When a character starts out, he/she does what it takes to get through the levels to specialize in their area of expertise, even if thats different from what they used to get there. Simply because a ranger is known to be an archer (and is by far the best at higher levels) does not mean that archery has to be their best bet when they're young. Rogues in the high end use peircers for their best damage, but you may see many rogues 1-65 using 1hs weapons, simply because at that point in time, thats the best thing they can use. Wizards are the masters of magic and nukes, but early on they will wield their dagger and go toe to toe. I'm strongly against the idea of making archery better and melee worse: Rangers are half druid and half warrior. In the lower levels (and even the higher ones) they may be required to tank - this wouldnt be very fun with even worse melee.

Bottom line: Please dont change anything with ranger archery.
 
The one thing i'm not happy with is EQ working only for arrows under 3 dmg considering it costs 9AAs. Granted 9 AAs don't take terribly long to get but compared to other AAs isn't this almost useless?
 
Haisei said:
The one thing i'm not happy with is EQ working only for arrows under 3 dmg considering it costs 9AAs. Granted 9 AAs don't take terribly long to get but compared to other AAs isn't this almost useless?
Click to expand...

Short answer: No.

Long answer: You don't know what you're talking about.
 
Well, so I do know what i'm talking about next time, could I get an explanation of that cryptic message I just received? :)
 
If rangers could use arrows higher than 3 for EQ, they do roughly rogue DPS. By using 3 dmg arrows, they only do about monk dps. So if you want to be a super-DPS-but-out-melee-range ranger, you have to fork up the cash and inventory space to do so.
 
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