Ranger Triple Attack

G

Garluk

Dalayan Beginner
Zodium said I should start a new thread rather than casting Wake the Dead on threads from May, so here goes ;)

wiz said:
Two melee readjustments are being put in:

A) Rangers will now recieve Triple Attack to the same extent monks do (when you start being able to double attack, you also start being able to triple attack with your mainhand, at a lower chance than double attack). This will put them on almost equal footing to monks in terms of melee DPS in the pre-endgame levels. We feel monks' superior tanking ability and utility makes them a simply completely superior class previous to Rangers maxing out their archery AAs otherwise. Monk DPS in melee takes off ahead of Ranger DPS with the help of AAs and superior styles in the endgame, which is at the same time Rangers start doing incredible damage with their bows.
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During a recent Everchill exp group I parsed my ranger with Melee Mastery 1 against a monk that had no AAs to improve his melee except for Combat Fury3. Both were using 2h weapons. Neither was main tank for the group, which is a good thing due to how riposte swings are extremely difficult to seperate from normal combat swings. Both of us had single attack rounds about 14% of the time, however, about 40% of the time the monk would triple attack while the rangers triple attack rate was about 1%. I had strongly suspected this was the case from my recent adventures with another monk but because that monk was tanking I was hesitant to bring it up due to ripostes fudging the numbers.

Prior to purchasing Melee Mastery 1, my single attack rate was 18-20% and my triple attack rate was too low to be measured. MM1 seems to have shifted about 4-6% of my single rounds up to double attacks but made basically no difference in my triple attack chance. It is my belief that adjusting ranger triple attack chances to be on par with monks would go a very long way towards balancing our melee dps.
 
Was the log at least 50 minutes long?

I sometimes wish I cared enough to make logs of my damage, versus the damage of others. I'd like to see where good old Ramblo stacked up.

On a more related note, the Ranger numbers do seem quite low all things considered.
 
Aeran parses very very close to Zhak, and at times will even spike above me. Granted, his weapon ratio is slightly ahead, but mine has a 333dd proc. I guess I'd like to see what aeran's parses show for ranger melee dps when compared to mine.
 
Ranger TA rate is code-wise identical to monk one. I'll check it over just in case.
 
Zhak Morris said:
mine has a 333dd proc
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Also remember that I chain cast Icerend in fights (with DI4 and SCF3) which is 1200/2400+ damage every minute or so (without a bard). Also, I havent done parses recently, but I'll assume that we're still close <3
 
I can take a nap and fix dinner while waiting for the ranger to have a triple attack round ;(
 
I haven't looked in detail, but my general parses seem to show ranger melee dps lacks against the same AA'd/weapon ratio'd monk.

PS. Ramblo, on abom today you parsed as the highest melee dps (!>?) - on Lady Leskala you parsed jointly with me, with only Ratty ahead. Obviously, don't read too much in to 2 fights ;)
 
I ran 2 extended totally uninterrupted parses versus froggy today. I bought Melee Mastery 2 with the AAs from tradeskills and am currently about 2 from buying MM3. Str and DEX were maxed at all times except for about the last 4-5 minutes of fight 2. This is what I parsed:

Fight one
Length: 52:02
Weapon type: 2hs
Single attack rate: 1%
Double attack rate: 99%
Triple attack rate: 0 (it never happened)

Fight two
Length: 53:12
Primary weapon: 1hb
Single attack rate: 1%
Double attack rate: 99%
Triple attack rate: 0 (it never happened)
Secondary weapon: 1hs
Single attack rate: 18%
Double attack rate: 82%
Triple attack rate: 0 (it never happened)
 
Not to derail or anything, but while we're on the topic of triple attack, how does paladin, shadowknight, warrior, and ranger triple attack stack up with monk and ranger triple attack?
 
suraan6 said:
Not to derail or anything, but while we're on the topic of triple attack, how does paladin, shadowknight, warrior, and ranger triple attack stack up with monk and ranger triple attack?
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Only monks and rangers get it, so you could say it doesn't stack at all.

Edit: And beastlords with AA's.
 
Garluk said:
I ran 2 extended totally uninterrupted parses versus froggy today. I bought Melee Mastery 2 with the AAs from tradeskills and am currently about 2 from buying MM3. Str and DEX were maxed at all times except for about the last 4-5 minutes of fight 2. This is what I parsed: ...
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Can I ask what parser you used? I checked Yalp and EQ Companion, and couldn't find anything for checking triple attacks... (And I'd like to check myself)
 
phlit said:
Garluk said:
I ran 2 extended totally uninterrupted parses versus froggy today. I bought Melee Mastery 2 with the AAs from tradeskills and am currently about 2 from buying MM3. Str and DEX were maxed at all times except for about the last 4-5 minutes of fight 2. This is what I parsed: ...
Click to expand...

Can I ask what parser you used? I checked Yalp and EQ Companion, and couldn't find anything for checking triple attacks... (And I'd like to check myself)
Click to expand...

I use EQCompanion. When you look at the details for a single fight, the columns on the right will show what % of your attacks were singles, doubles, triples, quads and then quad+. You can select multiple fights from the list and then hit the "combine all" button at the bottom to consilidate the data and smooth out the peaks and valleys to yield more accurate data than a single short duration fight provides. I have since bought MM3 and have yet to have a combat round that included more than 2 attacks unless I also had a riposte swing.

A 65 monk using a 2h will triple ~40% of the time without MM. A ranger with MM3 will not. Is it broken or working as intended? I don't know. I only know what I see with my own eyes and that is that rangers no longer triple or is it so rare as to be a statistical anomaly. These observations are based on fighting exp mobs, not just poor froggy.

In 10 rounds of combat I will get 20 swings (MM3 gives 100% double attack rate with primary hand). A similar monk will also get 20 swings. But he will also get another 4 swings from his innate triple chance. That is 25% more DPS in addition to his superior tanking. A ranger has greater versatility in a group, a monk has greater desirability at raids so these abilities pretty much even out. Thus we are left with the ranger being 25% less DPS and a poorer tank.

Rangers are higher dps than paladins, beastlords, clerics and possibly SK. Rangers are better tanks than druids and anyone wearing silk. If I were assembling a raid, I'd invite one ranger to cast CotP at the start and then camp him for ANY other class....ANY. Other than the predator line of atk buffs, there is nothing a ranger brings to a raid that is not also provided by multiple other classes that also bring even more abilities. Rangers are the worst of the "dps" classes, the worst of the "tank" classes and their role as a "support" class is negligible.

What about ranged combat? Yes, it is roughly 10-15% higher than my melee combat. But if you are going to compare my ranged combat then you have to compare it to the other forms of ranged combat, ie. nukes and DoTs and that comparison is just laughable. Also, if I am doing ranged combat then I have basically no aggro. If the tank dies and bedlam ensues, as it usually does, I am so far down the aggro list that the mob will eat pretty much everyone else before I can generate enough aggro with melee and spells to get his attention and bring my sub-par tanking skills to bear.

I'm not asking to be higher dps than rogues or to outtank warriors. It just sucks being last at everything.
 
Garluk said:
I'm not asking to be higher dps than rogues or to outtank warriors. It just sucks being last at everything.
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I think that was the idea behind giving us Rangers triple attack. The more I am curious, it doesnt seem to work at all, would be nice to hear something about this. Any news?
 
I can confirm that rangers are in no way triple attacking, either with 1h or 2h weapons. According to EQ companion, anyway.

(My previous problem parsing triple attacks was, stupidly, down to using two 1h weapons of the same type.)

I hope this gets sorted soon.... after being ninja-edited and called dumb for complaining about ranger 'utility/ability' (or rather, why anyone who doesn't want to solo would choose a ranger to play), it's sad to see topics like this and the foresight AA change and the EQ debate still unresolved/unimplemented after so much time. ;(
 
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