Ranger Thaz Legs

[Wiz]

That still doesn't fix the broken ranger pants.

And your utterly inane comparisons between 3-second delay archery and 10-second delay backstab do?

 

[iaeolan]

Totally. Furthermore, damage on 1handers need to go up because 2handers are doing more damage per hit.

That still doesn't fix the broken ranger pants.

That conch is huge compared to that starfish. Like damn, wtf? :toot:

 

[shanoma]

And your utterly inane comparisons between 3-second delay archery and 10-second delay backstab do?

Nope, those comparisons were posted to show my reasoning for why I didn't see how it would be unreasonable to replace the broken clicky on ranger legs with 45% haste, from an unbalancing standpoint. I didn't even go into my perspective that adding haste to an armor piece like that frees up other slots for replacement.

Did I post here to start an argument on the viability of rangers vs. rogues? No, it turned into that because other people jumped off the subject and are staying off the subject.

As a direct response to what I quoted from you here wiz, rogues do normal melee DPS on top of their backstabs. When rangers melee, they can't range. When rangers range, they can't melee. Sometimes I get strings of 10-12 misses in a row, and if that's a 3-second delay, that's 32-36 seconds where I'm doing literally no damage. Even if a rogue misses every single backstab during that period, they're still doing some dps. Now I'm sure you could try and compare normal rogue melee dps. vs ranger dots, but I'm sure they're doing more than 120dmg every 6 seconds without backstabbing.

Back on topic, the pants are broken and need to be fixed.

 

[JayelleNephilim]

the pants are broken and need to be fixed.

There is a whole lot of crap to weed through to get to this basic point. It would be a shame that it gets missed in all the really raelly horrible arguments for which.

 

[Wiz]

Jesus christ. Let's pick apart the falsifications in your argument, shall we?

Nope, those comparisons were posted to show my reasoning for why I didn't see how it would be unreasonable to replace the broken clicky on ranger legs with 45% haste, from an unbalancing standpoint. I didn't even go into my perspective that adding haste to an armor piece like that frees up other slots for replacement.

Saying that Backstab does more damage than Archery per hit does in no way make 'ergo rangers should get more haste' follow, any more than saying that a halberd does more damage than thingypoker per hit call for an upgrade of 1hp classes.

Did I post here to start an argument on the viability of rangers vs. rogues? No, it turned into that because other people jumped off the subject and are staying off the subject.

As a direct response to what I quoted from you here wiz, rogues do normal melee DPS on top of their backstabs. When rangers melee, they can't range. When rangers range, they can't melee.

This is an even worse argument. While casters cast spells, they can't melee. Does that mean spell DPS need to be upped?

Sometimes I get strings of 10-12 misses in a row, and if that's a 3-second delay, that's 32-36 seconds where I'm doing literally no damage. Even if a rogue misses every single backstab during that period, they're still doing some dps. Now I'm sure you could try and compare normal rogue melee dps. vs ranger dots, but I'm sure they're doing more than 120dmg every 6 seconds without backstabbing.

So what? Misses affect everyone equally, and in fact, rogues are more likely to get periods of very bad DPS because the chance of missing all 6 backstabs over a period of 60 seconds is bigger than the chance of missing all 30 shots. However, this does not actually have any effect on comparative DPS, as anyone with more than 1st grade math should be able to figure out.

Back on topic, the pants are broken and need to be fixed.

Let me just take a moment to be amazed at the fact that you managed to complete that entire sentence without a single lie, twist of fact or exaggeration.

 

[shanoma]

That's bullshit wiz, I didn't start this argument, I just want the pants fixed. Not once have you even addressed the broken pants. Instead of focusing on what needs to be fixed, you're focusing on what's wrong with me, my logic, and my knowledge. Good job dude.

 

[CaptHappy]

the thing you're missing is that you spent the majority of the thread arguing about an increase in haste because rogues got it, then YOU brought up rogue damage versus rangers, now that people are calling you on it all you want to talk about is fixing the pants

 

[shanoma]

As I previously posted, CaptHappy, I stated that to show my logic as to why I didn't see a 1% haste increase instead of a broken clicky being overpowering in comparison to other classes. I'm not the one who shifted this into a rogue vs. ranger argument, and I already previously stated my vantage point on other classes. People apparently just like to bicker and have difficulties reading.

 

[Wiz]

That's bullshit wiz, I didn't start this argument, I just want the pants fixed. Not once have you even addressed the broken pants. Instead of focusing on what needs to be fixed, you're focusing on what's wrong with me, my logic, and my knowledge. Good job dude.

Of course. You posted lies and manipulated facts on my forum, therefore I called you on it. If you don't like it the solution is simple - don't do those things.

The pants question is pretty simple - they're broken and need to be fixed so they stop crashing zones. What else is there to discuss?

 

[Thinkmeats]

As I previously posted, CaptHappy, I stated that to show my logic as to why I didn't see a 1% haste increase instead of a broken clicky being overpowering in comparison to other classes. I'm not the one who shifted this into a rogue vs. ranger argument, and I already previously stated my vantage point on other classes. People apparently just like to bicker and have difficulties reading.

You can't really say that other people are wasting time when they're simply deconstructing what you've posted. If they're wasting time in attacking what you've said then you've clearly also wasted time in saying it. That said, I'm pretty sure we're done here--after all, the legs are crashing zones. Not a lot of reasoning needed to see why that's bad :toot:

edit damn you wiz you beat me to the punch

 

[Tempus]

I'd like to see 45% haste on rangers as well as the clicky getting fixed. Rangers were already majorly nerfed to be brought under rogue dps, and that 1% haste adds a massive amount to monk and rogue dps. Leaving rangers out of this, especially with the addition of rogue traps, really pushes them out of line with the rest of melee/hybrid dps.

To find the point at which you started trolling your own suggestion, please see above.

 

[shanoma]

Wiz, I didn't attempt to lie or manipulate anything. While my information may not have been entirely accurate, I posted to the best of my knowledge. I also posted my perspective and where I gained this knowledge from. How is this lying or being manipulative? Furthermore, what's with you and the personal attacks? There's a huge difference between saying "hey dude, you're wrong there. i don't know where you're getting your info from, but it's not right." and saying "HAH! You're a liar! You're trying to cheat us all and manipulate things so other people look bad!"

Oh, and thanks for finally addressing the problem I originally posted about in the first place. I really don't think the intended effect for that clicky is to crash zones.

Response to Tempus: Yes, I tend to express my perspective so other people can relate it to their own. I know that my viewpoint isn't always entirely on-key, so sharing my opinions and views can help me to better relate to other people. Unfortunately, many people tend to take this as a personal attack, and that reaction to my opinions and viewpoints is what caused this thread to go where it did. Perhaps in the future I should simply refrain from pointing out problems in-game, my suggestions for fixing them, and my reasoning behind it, due to incivility.

 

[Wiz]

Wiz, I didn't attempt to lie or manipulate anything. While my information may not have been entirely accurate, I posted to the best of my knowledge. I also posted my perspective and where I gained this knowledge from. How is this lying or being manipulative? Furthermore, what's with you and the personal attacks? There's a huge difference between saying "hey dude, you're wrong there. i don't know where you're getting your info from, but it's not right." and saying "HAH! You're a liar! You're trying to cheat us all and manipulate things so other people look bad!"

Oh, and thanks for finally addressing the problem I originally posted about in the first place. I really don't think the intended effect for that clicky is to crash zones.

Response to Tempus: Yes, I tend to express my perspective so other people can relate it to their own. I know that my viewpoint isn't always entirely on-key, so sharing my opinions and views can help me to better relate to other people. Unfortunately, many people tend to take this as a personal attack, and that reaction to my opinions and viewpoints is what caused this thread to go where it did.

I'm pretty sure people already responsed to the crash issue in this thread, is there some magical standard saying that I had to also address every issue in every thread I post in no matter if it was covered and how clear-cut it is? Or are you just using "you don't deal with the issues man..." as a transparent excuse to hand-wave away your own errors?

I don't see any particular reason to be nice about things when you use self-serving arguments that attempt to portray your class in the worst possible light so that you can get unwarranted upgrades. As posted above, you were already trolling your own thread, so don't call foul when others do the same.

Perhaps in the future I should simply refrain from pointing out problems in-game, my suggestions for fixing them, and my reasoning behind it, due to incivility.

You could try posting about actual problems instead of fabricating them in a transparent fishing expedition for DPS upgrades.

 

[Wiz]

I will reiterate this: I have no respect for anyone who thinks that making up arguments or re-stating "facts" in a grossly manipulative way is an acceptable way to use this forum (see: Backstab damage > Bow damage per hit ERGO rangers are underpowered) and I will call out bullshit like that because it turns any kind of productive dialogue between players and developers into a game where each class tries to make up the best talking points to get upgraded, no matter if it's warranted, no matter if they're already balanced.

Come at me straight, or don't come at all.

 

[ryutakin]

Totally. Furthermore, damage on 1handers need to go up because 2handers are doing more damage per hit.

Seriously I thought something was wrong with my One handers

 

[shanoma]

Ok, I see. We had a communication issue, which was probably my fault for not more precisely representing my point. To rectify this, I do NOT think rangers are underpowered. I like rangers so much that I don't want to play any other class. The only thing that bothers me about rangers is the pp cost of our dps - but I even accept that and enjoy it because I know it will drive others away and make it more of an "elite" class. This is another reason I'm staunchly against any type of repetitive fire for rangers. If you're not willing to pay for the arrows and jam on the range key, there's a lot of alternatives.

I don't think that rogues are overpowered. What I stated about rogues, I stated as a comparison to show why I didn't think it would unbalance issues in-game to give the same haste percentage as monks and rogues to rangers and beastlords. 1% haste isn't going to be some huge, game-breaking upgrade and in the end will add very little dps to rangers. As I've seen a lot of conflict between the rogue/ranger dps standpoint, I wanted to express why I didn't feel like it would overpower rangers in comparison to rogues. And from a total outsider perspective on rogues, the addition of poisons and traps DOES appear to be powerful. As for backstab damage, when a rogue is telling me how they just backstabbed a lvl 70 mob for 9k, that does leave me reeling with amazement.

I do have parses of being consistently outdamaged by Onikitsu and Kenilae, but I didn't post about DPS because I really didn't think it was relevant to the addition of 1% haste. Actually, I thought the lack of haste on beastlord and ranger gear was an oversight, like the clicky, and wasn't intentional.

 

[iaeolan]

but I didn't post about DPS because I really didn't think it was relevant to the addition of 1% haste.

:monocle:

Rangers were already majorly nerfed to be brought under rogue dps, and that 1% haste adds a massive amount to monk and rogue dps.

 

[Ikaa|LoveYums]

Yeah you can stop trolling the thread now. Thanks Iae.

 

[soba]

This pains me. If only there were some, I don't know, some kind of new high end content wherein upgrades to previous items could be found.

Alas!

Monks and Rogues get their 45% haste item at Thaz level, Bards get it at ToT level, Tanks get their 46% haste at ToT level.I'm well aware of Sanctum ,I just don't see why these 2 specific classes are left behind in haste until the next tier, why only those 2 specific classes?

 

[JayelleNephilim]

I personally never designed an item intentionally omitting those classes (ie: i was never told "hey these classes can't have this haste till this tier."). I could be wrong, but it might have been just an oversight.