Ranger DPS (vs Rogue too!)
- Thread starter Alton
- Start date
I agree here. I like to think, for example, a forsaken wizard(Perkins, Nemx, Terate, who the hell ever really that has their relics which I hope by that time they have all their important AAs done) put up against such rangers and would very easily out DPS them as they should with the tradeoff being melee can "go the distance." Now, if that's not the case, then yeah there's something really frickin wrong with that. Nukers should ALWAYS be better DPS because they use mana, and melee should ALWAYS be the go the distancers not having to rely on mana, on any online game that will ever be created. Time and again I've commented that I need to take my wizard on x named kill because she's the best dps we have and time and again I've heard the same shit, "ranger dps is better." Like, wtf ever when rangers can UB we'll talk. I don't like to hear rangers are better dps, whether they are or not. They shouldn't be, even taking into account resists for nukers.Garluk said:
So, yeah, as far as rng vs rog goes, again, no comment, but one needs to be better than the other. I don't want to feel like I'm playing Age of Empires here. As far as the rng class goes, yeah it needs to be toned down if they're really better DPS than wizards. Now, if the wizard is oom and the fight takes another minute to be over with and they get out done then that is acceptable to me. But, as far as I know, I'm often just reaching oom as a named dies and in that case if I'm being out DPS by rangers at my raid level then that very seriously needs to be looked at. This isn't whining for changes because of how I think they should be, I'm saying... it's common sense that nukers with the powers of magic should be better dps. It's like standard law of the videogame universe. Person A with a gun, vs person B with a sword. Who do you think should win? Seriously.
In the end, all of this is very.. debateable. Or something. It all comes down to gear and spells for DPS output and it's really hard to figure things out because of that, what's fair to compare and what isn't fair to compare. But when everything is in order and fair to compare... I like to think, until they run oom at least, wizards come out on top.
Llanoldar Lluindar
Dalayan Beginner
Garluk said:
Also QFT.
All those parses Thaf posted are on named mobs where I can use heartseekers/8 damage arrows (which cost money) to do more dps.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Garluk said:
Granted, I am but not by far one of the better raid dropped bows. A 24/31 to be exact, and iirc he only got that one fairly recently (swiftshot) before that he had, ashenstrike, frost king's hunting bow, and kedgemetal crossbow. That is notably easily within the tier before casters are getting their relics, and far before any mage should expect to see theirs unless A) They bought them before the change like I did B) Their guild has most of their relics. C) The RNG had a heart attack and is currently in traction. If I wanted skewed I would have asked mort for a parse of bloodseeker or you/kinotos for a parse of woe, something I'd consider in the line of relic dps as it would be a high end droppable bow (well actually woe would be comparable with archaics, bloodseeker with relics). Back when relics were droppable yeah I'd see the point would be pretty much moot comparing, but considering that is the best casters are *ever* going to get...yeah. Granted I should pretty much parse kade/rurho, as they have their archaics etc.
For dps I'd gladly pay 5-10k especially for the kind rangers put out at the moment. Also if for instance $ drops hadn't been nerfed all to hell, those arrows would easily pay for themselves. Also let me point out at a "raiding level" with reagent conservation heartseekers don't really cost a heck of alot of money. I think to date I've burned 4 fire opals out of 20ish+ casts of them, and I'm only rockin rcIV.
As for our parses, generally none of our blasters run oom. No wait siknn used to sometimes I think. But thats pretty much it. Generally before we did with the tiers we were hitting and still are we're rocking about 20-40m by the end of the fight (except of course if strylok hit manaburn at the end of the fight, in which case he would obviously be oom) and it certainly isnt for lack of trying.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Ginam said:
JESUS which one?? I need that one. Max so far with bladewind is approx 4.7kish with cunning and di6.
tinkaa said:
Crippling blows can't land on mobs above level 60 or 61 (I don't remember the exact level cutoff). They are pretty much just for eyecandy. As far as I know, there are no mobs that are flagged as "immune to spell crit / ultimate blast / primal blast". There are lots of mobs that are immune to melee crit and even more that are above the crippling blow cutoff (most of raid trash).
Also, I hate to break this to ya, but .... the only reasons to take a mage on a raid are if you are already full of wizards or you really need FR. I'd rather have a necro than a mage (gg, dot weakening, self-healing and same DPS). And I have a mage with 267 AAs, full relics, archaic and even his ritual spell.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Garluk said:
Yeah we know thats why we tend to avoid playing ours nowadays if possible.
tinkaa
*fake Tinkerbell*
Bah well, I still saw you crit for 5k on Deyranni when I played you, Gea 
Tink can never crit for that much. 4717 with cunning etc, if the mob does not resist (doesn't have archaic completed yet).
One of our rangers got one of the best bows in game same day we got our first archaic. Now wait for all casters to get their archaics to be able to compare.
Tink can never crit for that much. 4717 with cunning etc, if the mob does not resist (doesn't have archaic completed yet).
One of our rangers got one of the best bows in game same day we got our first archaic. Now wait for all casters to get their archaics to be able to compare.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Why are you guys arguing about how big the crit numbers can get instead of actual dps? :what:
My best EVER crit with Woe is about 4400 and that's with huge atk on a blue con. Total crits over 4200 can probably be counted on one hand.
Something I haven't mentioned yet, my DPS on raid mobs is about 15-25% less than Terate / Perkins before they got Thaz equipped and I'm wearing a couple pieces of Thaz gear. IMO, that's not unreasonable.
Something I haven't mentioned yet, my DPS on raid mobs is about 15-25% less than Terate / Perkins before they got Thaz equipped and I'm wearing a couple pieces of Thaz gear. IMO, that's not unreasonable.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Garluk said:
That does seem pretty reasonable actually. Seems what's really the problem is not necessarily rangers are "too good" endgame wise. Perhaps midgame and early game wise though (speaking of course of raids), and more that other classes simply don't compare dpswise in the first place. Seeing as rangers got their revamp a while ago, a few other classes are probably due for one.
*cough* mages *cough* rogues *cough*
brasileira
Dalayan Elder
Wanna power up rogue, or power down rangers?
Ok but remember that rangers NEED bows and arrows
AFAIK there is like 6 raid bows. And a few arrows that go up to dmg 8 that cost like a million.
Not to mention that the many kinds of weapons rogue can use, the many kind of procs they can use.
Usefull spells? Hmm.. 1k nuke and that all
because everyone benefits from CoTp, even rogues.
Avoid AoE?
War, Pal,SK, Rog, Brd can avoid AOE also.. just use a BOW!!!
Ok but remember that rangers NEED bows and arrows
AFAIK there is like 6 raid bows. And a few arrows that go up to dmg 8 that cost like a million.
Not to mention that the many kinds of weapons rogue can use, the many kind of procs they can use.
Usefull spells? Hmm.. 1k nuke and that all
because everyone benefits from CoTp, even rogues.
Avoid AoE?
War, Pal,SK, Rog, Brd can avoid AOE also.. just use a BOW!!!
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
brasileira said:
Umm as for this useful spells? Sure yes, rangers have a nuke. Granted that should be taken into consideration at least minorly in dps, though I don't think anyone has really mentioned it. But if we're talking about class balance overall? Not only can rangers avoid aoe while doing considerable dps, solo pretty much anything that doesn't summon, given a wide enough area, scout effectively (invis and track), buff themselves with procs etc (less dependent on other classes), root, snare, etc, etc. The list includes quite a bit of things that make them already better than rogues from just an overall standpoint.
As for the point of other classes being able to avoid aoe's while dpsing...I would make a reasonable guess that none of those other classes would even come close perhaps not even comparing to a quarter of the damage that a ranger with a bow would while avoiding that aoe. Keep in mind that a melee ranger would probably outparse all but the rogue as well.