Random Necro Pets

Bonk84

Bonk84

Dalayan Elder
i would like to suggest that summoned necro pets have a random chance of becoming something besides a melee type pet, like a wizard (casts stuns and DD's), cleric (buffs and heals self and party members, no cheal), or monk (evades and blocks more while hits faster and kicks) type mob with balanced spells and lowered melee damage compared to their fighter counterpart.

since we are supposed to summon forth the bones from the long since dead, not all that are dead only fight.
 
Eredhel said:
Mages are the masters of pets. But those suggestions are too much for even them.
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I hear this comment quite a bit, but I feel that it's a little misguided. Mages are the master of elements, and as a result, they get 4 types of pets and much more powerful pet aas. But necromancers are the masters of undead, and are pets are undead, but we get very little options when it comes to improving our pets. Both classes have pets that correspond to their mastery (mages = elementals, necros = undead) but only one class actually gets any mastery over their corresponding pet class (mages), while the other (necros) gets extremely little in terms of pet customization or improvement. Personally I would like to see a change in this, giving necromancers true control over the undead they summon (with some improved aa's) but not in the way Shadamir suggested.
 
I have both classes and I think the concept that rides this is that necros have very powerful spells and slightly less powerful pets while mages have very powerful pets and slightly less powerful spells. A necro can do anything that they need done from healing their pet to themselves to rooting to dotting to kiting. Mages are far more limited but this is balanced by the pets.

For the most part, they are very well balanced by having these strengths in different areas. If necros got pets that were different types of undead and had slight differences at random, that would be cool. Higher levels would maybe have a higher chance at the better undead (like the wraith pet that procs tap on live etc). Maybe skel pets would have a slight speed advantage, zombie pets with higher HP/ac, vamp/wraith pets with smallish lifetap, etc. But with all the balance in the spell structure the differences would have to be truly slight indeed.
 
I agree with Danku.

And Zorlaft, I don't think we completely rule over elements, we only have fire and magic based nukes :p

Necros already are very very useful on long fights or as crowd control, while mage can only provide a pet to offtank and dps.

We have to spend 59 AAs to improve our pet's damage output and it's avoidance and it wouldn't seem fair to me that you'd just get a monk pet. You can charm an udead one anyway :p
 
tinkaa said:
Necros already are very very useful on long fights or as crowd control, while mage can only provide a pet to offtank and dps.

We have to spend 59 AAs to improve our pet's damage output and it's avoidance and it wouldn't seem fair to me that you'd just get a monk pet.  You can charm an udead one anyway :p
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i have been away from the raid scene a long time, but how exactly are necro's very useful on long fights or crowd control?

yes we get mez (which does get resisted often) and root, but aside from that, thats it.  and on long fights, all we have is DPS, DMF, and FD to save a raid.

also yes we can charm an undead monk, which is only useful in west freeport which isn't a good xp spot even with that monk kicking for over 600 sometimes.  the mobs blue mobs to 65 there have too many hp's to just tear through them and you have to have pretty much sow to survive charming there.  the three blue mob types there are the enchanters (which are a major avoid unless you want to die), monks, and fighters, all of which easily melee for over 200.  also we have little in ways of healing our monk pet once it becomes critically damaged (under 20% which is about two fights against a blue) so we have to drop it and charm a new one.  so yes you are correct in saying that we can charm a monk pet, but the utility of that is pretty much just for looks.

59 AA's just to get your pet to better mitigate damage and deal more damage is crap.  mage pets already outdamage necro pets and have more hps without you having to cast burnout.  with your ability to DS your pet with a killer DS, while having the option of either summoning a pet that slows, roots, or stuns, and having the ability to heal your pet pretty well, and summoning gear for you pet to do even more damage is astonishing (haste rings and weapons).  all that against our pet who only has the option of getting spell haste from us necros, and a 24hp lifetap proc he's had since lvl 44, and having roughly 2khps

i have seen a mage pet offtank better than some real tanks in situations.
 
Bonk84 said:
i have been away from the raid scene a long time, but how exactly are necro's very useful on long fights or crowd control?

yes we get mez (which does get resisted often) and root, but aside from that, thats it. and on long fights, all we have is DPS, DMF, and FD to save a raid.
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... I think you just answered your own question. But in case you didn't get it, let me reiterate.

Necros are KINGS of DoT dps. They're actually VERY VERY good at dps, but since their DPS comes in DoTs, it's better for long fights than it is for short ones. So, by "Very Useful" people probably mean "Contribute Lots of DPS" Which is, of course, Very Useful.

In addition, DoTs mitigate the damage a mob does. From the TOK:

DoT WEAKENING

Essentially, weakening effect works by adding up all the damage done to a mob by DoTs in a single tick. For the remainder of that tick, the mob directly deals less damage in melee based on how much DoT damage it is taking in proportion to its HP.

This effect is intended to add a bit more viability for DoTs in the raid game, as even a percent or two of reduction is a lot on a top end raid mob, but it will also be beneficial in the EXP game and on lower levels, especially since DoTs can shave off quite a few percent of a mob's HP every tick.

The max impact of DoTs are 10% direct melee damage reduction.
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If you don't think 10% damage reduction is useful in a raid, then . . . I don't know what to say to you. Other than I hope you're not leading my guild :/
 
i told you, i have been away from the raid scene for quite some time, and i never knew the dots weakening mobs was implimented, so please dont hold that one against me. yes, we are the kings of dot dps, whoopty, its our main damage line. thats like saying wizards are the kings of burst dps, its just redundant.

yes, necro's are DPS, i stated that, so are mages and wizards, so where are you going with this? where i was trying to go with my post was simply pointing out that necro's have almost no utility, so i was trying to come up with ideas with making our pets stronger as it does fit our class due my failure to come up with any utility for necro's that are already there. i don't see why we are just limited to a pet that just melee's when mages get a choice of pets they can change depending on their situations. if you go by lore, which the game is based upon, necro's should be able to raise from the dead pets other than one that just melee's.
 
No utility?

Mez, FD, Statistical Taps, Lesser Heals, Fear, DMF, Pet...


In contrast, a wizard has - Port and Blades.
 
if you are going to include our lesser heals, you should include the wizards DS, both of which have little if no effect on the end game grouping/raiding. they also have lev and familiars which can sometimes mimic a nuke.

also most of our stat taps are overwritten by SK and most zones don't have fear pathing.
 
Mind wrack prawns. 400 mana to each person in your group is NOTHING to sneeze at. The reduction in mobs dps never really reaches 10% for raid mobs, but necros stacking dots still reduce a good amount of dps, even if it's not something you directly see.

IMO, mind wrack alone is worth a necro in every caster group. If it lands, it's almost as good as a mod rod, and it can land several times a fight.

The utility is there, and it stacks, unlike a mage (where you only need one for mod rods and DS) and the dps is comparable.
 
rab said:
The utility is there, and it stacks, unlike a mage (where you only need one for mod rods and DS) and the dps is comparable.
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Exactly :(
Not to mention:
-your lifetaps increase survivability on mobs that DoT/AE
-you have levant, FD, root, mez, charm, snare, slow undead (perfect for zones like cata, misery and HK if you ask me) - meaning you most likely stay alive if the pet dies, while a mage doesn't if they don't gate. Sorry I'm letting our fabulous root Earthsplit out - but as I've noticed, it can only give you a few extra seconds to cast gate, which is completely fine, but far from any CC.
-mage soloing has to be very careful with aggro, especially if they don't have talok's taunting echoes, which means they have to time pet heals/rains/nukes carefully (especially if you don't have a relic pet or water for example). You can kite completely fine for example.
-fire pet's DS doesn't stack with any other, not even relic DS (which would be overpowered anyway)
-I am sure I go oom faster than a necro with lich form (with at least similar amount of mana)
-Wake the Dead necro AA seems very cool to me if you wake a raid boss :keke: It can outtank and outdps any real tank and any relic mage pet (maybe it isn't intended to work that way, but it currently does)
-you don't get asked for summoning stacks of arrows all the time! :haw:
-about mage pet offtaking better than a real tank (I've also seen that): it's just because healers get scared when the tank dies so they start paying more attention
-on raids a necro rezzed a cleric many many times while a mage was most likely just sitting at bind spot /afk ready for rez
-our pets cost us some diversity in our nukes, while you have disease, poison, fire and cold nukes/dots.
-relic necro pet has a lifetap proc, which heals the whole area a little, so it's not only a pure melee

My bf that plays (or played) a necro up to 150aas revised this btw :psyduck: I have played him a bit too and some mobs are easier to solo with a necro than with a mage.

I think both classes are balanced and very useful in some situations.
 
rab said:
Mind wrack prawns.  400 mana to each person in your group is NOTHING to sneeze at.  The reduction in mobs dps never really reaches 10% for raid mobs, but necros stacking dots still reduce a good amount of dps, even if it's not something you directly see.

IMO, mind wrack alone is worth a necro in every caster group.  If it lands, it's almost as good as a mod rod, and it can land several times a fight.

The utility is there, and it stacks, unlike a mage (where you only need one for mod rods and DS) and the dps is comparable.
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It's an obvious question, but Mind Wrack / Wandering Mind recourse effects bypass the spell regen cap, right?
 
OK just to back up Shadamir a bit cause he 's alone in the dark :p
His suggestion doesnt sound so much of overpowering. What I understood is random class attribution when pet is summoned, there will be opportunities where a monk won't be better than a warrior (especially if you need pet to purely tank) or a wizard won't do good (high MR mobs or counterspelling, and pet with very low HP...).
Well, I wouldn't speak of a cleric since it would be clearly overpowing, but among WAR/ROG/MNK/Even SK, it could be understandable. What I saw in Shadamir's suggestion is a roleplay vision of the pet, who could be the emanation of a fallen soldier, and could have been something else than a warrior in his actual life.
 
Of course a "random" class distribution would end up being very specific in the end. If the devs were to take that route, they may as well just give necros a line of spells with different attributes (think level 63 pets - 4 droppables, one wizard, one warrior, one rogue, and one monk).

Otherwise you'd just keep casting your "random" spell until you got the pet you wanted - which amounts to the same thing.

You know you would.
 
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