Rampant Vine Kilt (Extremely Over Nerfed Tier 13 Gear)

[sabuti]

This is a new loot off of the hardest killed mob in game;
Rampant Vine Kilt Tier 13
Here's what it looks like if you're too lazy to click the wiki link ( augged )


This item is so unbelievably bad for what it drops off of, it's hard for me to even type this post giving reasons why it's bad and needs to be changed.

First and foremost i'd like to compare it to the "meta" pant slot item for the same classes from a few tiers lower, the main one being;
Belahfri, Plates of Brutal Impact Tier 11
Again, another augged pic, sorry for the confusion (Rohk's Pearl, +30 mana, +2 Alteration, +1 FT)


So lets look at what these items have on eachother
Rampant Vine Kilt, useless stats, focus effect and a skill mod
Healing Increment VIII
Enveloping Roots (Must Wear, 2.0)
+58 Wis
+58 Int
+30 Sta
+15 agi
+5 Mana
+3 Alteration
some useless SVs

Belahfri, Plates of Brutal Impact haste and offense making healing proc weapons WAY better, spell ward, crit strike, melee stats, SVs for stuff people actually fight, and DI VII
Haste, 50%
Offense, 25%
Damage Increment VII
Spell ward +4%
Critical Strike +3%
Magic Damage +25
+17 AC
+35 Str
+35 Dex
+20 Cha
some SVs

The Haste and Offense of Belahfri is SO good, especially on SHM and DRU because their offense caps at 225, thus making their hit rate sky rocket, no healer would ever even consider using the Kilt over them (cept like, thade, cause he thinks -50 int is terrible or something) simply because what the Kilt offers, Healing VIII and Alteration, is so abundant on other fantastic, best in slot items, there is no reason to ever, under any circumstances, use it over Belahfri or even Breeches of Antiquity.

And don't even get me started on Wildfire Vambraces. The loot on this mob has been so overnerfed for some reason I do not understand, tier 9 thaz loot is stronger than this garbage. I have yet to hear a reason why whoever made this loot so god awful did it. Please, please inform me why this encounter I have killed 3 times, probably putting something like 50 hours total JUST wiping and clearing to this mob drops the most garbage loot for the difficulty in the game.

What I think can be done to fix this problem is either
A.) Give these items a serious buff or change in a useful way
or
B.) Tune this encounter town to about tier 11

Thanks sorry for the terrible post

 

[Kedrin]

This post is so unbelievably bad for who posted it (and that is saying something), it's hard for me to even type this reply giving reasons why it's bad and needs to be changed.

 

[Nwaij]

None of the loot of this mob has been nerfed at any time in the past.

 

[Kedrin]

These legs are the definition of a side grade. 17ac vs 20hp 5 mana in the simplest of terms.

25 Magic Damage is basically worthless for the priest class:

Cleric:
Martyr's Intercession is Unresistable
Condemnation is magic but who casts that? Maybe I am bad?
Upheaval? go go AE

Shaman:
Nothing

Druids:
Earthquake && Hurricane so you can do 25 more dmg as you're getting yelled at in vent for wiping the raid. Looking at you Wealwawn....

not sure why you even bring it up.

Healing 8 is better than Damage 7, both are easy to get or upgrade however.

Damage 8 is somewhat easy to get with two good Priests boots. (Fragmented Anklets && Fel'talla, Path of the Stars)
Healing 8 is on the best back, best ranged, and arguably the best helm.

This is a wash.

50% haste is important however you can make it up with Piercing of the False Avatar.

3% crit different could be a thing, however white melee dmg on a priest is something that is so little it shouldn't matter if you're missing out on 1-2% crit.

The only real difference with the legs are the skill mods, and the 58 int different for Tome of the Mind crits for DPS (mainly for a shaman)

 

[Marza]

None of the loot of this mob has been nerfed at any time in the past.

Please don't say things that you have no idea about. Your blue tag might end up convincing someone of your ignorance.

In regards to the items... I am not exactly happy where they are at but this mob is definitely easier than it used to be. Calling it the hardest mob in the game is probably a little inaccurate as well. Having said that, the items can still use some bumps.

You also point out a fact that Belahfri has things on it that make it close to unreplaceable by other pants unless they are grossly better. That might be something that needs to be addressed/added to other items moving forward, but it should not be something that is on every pair of pants to make them compete. Belahfri are just really good honestly.

 

[Kedrin]

you also point out a fact that Belahfri has things on it that make it close to unreplaceable by other pants unless they are grossly better. That might be something that needs to be addressed/added to other items moving forward, but it should not be something that is on every pair of pants to make them compete. Belahfri are just really good honestly.

Having max overcap skill mod on one item, even if it is just Offense for priests, seems a bit much. Perhaps it could be lowered to 10. then some Offense love can be put on some other items?

Remove the Double Attack +2 off Piercing of the False Avatar and add 10 Offense
Remove the Double Attack +1 off The Strength of Many and add 10 Offense (no tank is going to use them over Imperceptable Bonds anyhow)

 

[Dev-Solo]

None of the loot of this mob has been nerfed at any time in the past.

Yes, it definitely has been nerfed.

You can't expect these to compete with the 25 offense on Belfahfri. That's a unique stat that really should be spread around lots of gear instead of stacked onto one item.

However, these pants *should* reflect the two tier difference between the items. Look back at any other two tier difference in the game. Tier 7 to Tier 9, or Tier 9 to Tier 11, or Tier 4 to Tier 6. You will see a gain of 30-50 mana, 30-50hp, a tier of focus effects, and overall better stats.

I don't think we can expect them to have 25 offense, but I think more mana, hp is the bare minimum. They really are a good candidate for a rank 9 focus effect, since those are all way overdue anyway (full rank 8 focus effects are available at tier 10, why are 9s still scarce at tier 13?).

The arms are in a similar place. More hp/mana seems obvious. A T5 aug, and/or more fire damage would go a long way, and of course a tier 9 focus for the same reasons.

The ring actually isn't too bad, and is more in line with tier 13 gear than the other items we have seen, but the clicky is worthless at its ultra-nerfec 8 second cast time. Make it 1-2 seconds, or just make it replace the EF Harvest Clicky or some other already-in game clicky at a slight cast time upgrade.

 

[sabuti]

The ring actually isn't too bad, and is more in line with tier 13 gear than the other items we have seen, but the clicky is worthless at its ultra-nerfec 8 second cast time. Make it 1-2 seconds, or just make it replace the EF Harvest Clicky or some other already-in game clicky at a slight cast time upgrade.

i think the current difficulty of the fight would still justify the items original stats. right now its only useful on a wizard, but if the clicky was .5, all people who have mana could make use out of it and it would probably be a lot more desired

 

[AngryCow]

For being oh-so terrible, I noticed that they were augged.. meaning some character capable of taking down the games 'hardest' encounter thought they were worth wearing... I think we should all keep in mind what Marza said, not every item needs to be 100% competitive.

 

[sabuti]

For being oh-so terrible, I noticed that they were augged.. meaning some character capable of taking down the games 'hardest' encounter thought they were worth wearing... I think we should all keep in mind what Marza said, not every item needs to be 100% competitive.

he wears it because they are green pants. if you had seen the fight you would be agreeing that the kilt and arms both need to be changed

 

[ynnear]

donate and make them a different color other than green

 

[Nebi]

25 offense for classes such as shaman and druid are the tits. for everyone else it is not required.

When do you see the rest of the int casters doing melee? and for the most part find a druid who melee's boss mobs.

 

[Moraelintz]

25 offense for classes such as shaman and druid are the tits. for everyone else it is not required.

When do you see a druid who melee's boss mobs.

Whenever I tell her too!

 

[sabuti]

25 offense for classes such as shaman and druid are the tits. for everyone else it is not required.

When do you see the rest of the int casters doing melee? and for the most part find a druid who melee's boss mobs.

You do have a point however Zaela posted exactly what over 250 offense does, and apparently, even though it's not too much, it does help a little so it's not like it's useless on clerics.

You'd be surprised actually. Krentil always melees, and meleeing on a wizard with a spires 2h is actually viable.

But yes I agree it is not "needed" per say for anyone besides Druids and shamans, but still cool

 

[Nebi]

You do have a point however Zaela posted exactly what over 250 offense does, and apparently, even though it's not too much, it does help a little so it's not like it's useless on clerics.

You'd be surprised actually. Krentil always melees, and meleeing on a wizard with a spires 2h is actually viable.

But yes I agree it is not "needed" per say for anyone besides Druids and shamans, but still cool

right so you're basically saying you need to nerf shamans and druids who are already at a huge healing disadvantage. the pants you mention should technically be a huge upgrade to a cleric as -50 into will help them with 1% crit.

 

[sabuti]

right so you're basically saying you need to nerf shamans and druids who are already at a huge healing disadvantage. the pants you mention should technically be a huge upgrade to a cleric as -50 into will help them with 1% crit.

what?

 

[Nebi]

what?

Previous to NZ pants these are pretty much what you'd be wearing as a priest.

[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]

Slot: LEGS
AC: 40
Focus Effect: Entropic Ruination
Skill Mod: 1H Blunt +5
STR: +20 DEX: +10 STA: +40 CHA: +25 WIS: +30 AGI: +10 HP: +230 MANA: +240
SV DISEASE: +30 SV MAGIC: +30
Flowing Thought: +1
Mind Shield: +4%
Stun Resist: +4%
Recommended level of 65.
WT: 3.5 Size:MEDIUM
Class: CLR DRU SHM NEC BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1 type 5: empty

NZ pants as mentioned above

[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: LEGS
AC: 60
Focus Effect: Damage Increment VII
Magic DMG: 25
Effect: 50% Haste (Worn)
Skill Mod: Offense +25
STR: +50 DEX: +50 CHA: +20 WIS: -50 INT: -50 HP: +215 MANA: +260
SV FIRE: +20 SV COLD: +25 SV MAGIC: +15
Flowing Thought: +1
Spell Ward: +4%
Critical Strike: +5%
WT: 2.5 Size:LARGE
Class: CLR DRU SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC
Race: ALL
Slot 1 type 5: empty

These pants that you mention

[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: LEGS
AC: 43
Focus Effect: Healing Increment VIII
Effect: Enveloping Roots (Must Equip, 2.0)
Skill Mod: Alteration +3
STR: +15 DEX: +15 STA: +30 WIS: +8 INT: +8 AGI: +15 HP: +235 MANA: +265
SV DISEASE: +20 SV POISON: +20
Flowing Thought: +1
Critical Strike: +2%
Recommended level of 65.
WT: 1.2 Size:SMALL
Class: CLR DRU SHM
Race: ALL
Slot 1 type 5: empty

to recap your post

These pants suck
These pants suck because alteration mods are easy to get (Ekyu is alteration capped with these pants and not over capped. with his current gear setup he would not be overcapped with the old "better pants")
These pants suck even though when Ekyu upgraded to these he gained +1% spell crit mod that he did not have before. (Getting over capped int on a healer is not something that can easily be done).

The Haste and Offense of Belahfri is SO good, especially on SHM and DRU because their offense caps at 225

Again the offense is good for 2 classes. sorry clerics that with your insane abilities to go higher on the offensive scale that these are not insane for you. But do not worry there is now a good alternative for you! And to add on I would definitely use these pants on diashan if I could. there is no easier way to increase crit by 1% than by getting comparable stats without a huge downgrade. (dont forget all the shit gear solo would wear to get +1 channeling. you might not remember though).

---------

Now If I were on tier and fighting I would not make a bad post and scream bloody murder without at least giving some input. I will agree that there are quite a few viable alternatives at healing 8 and it seems like the tier is over saturated (remember the times when people would post that there weren't any focus effects?). I would probably suggest asking for a magic focus or something along the likes because it seems its rare to have that focus at the high tier as a healer (enjoy them procs+++) . That alone with probably some int / wis would make these pretty nice and not have to second guess it.

 

[Dev-Solo]

Sabuti'so post was pretty bad but that doesn't mean the pants are good or where they should be. The int might add OFFENSIVE spell crit depending on current gear setup, which is nice, but minor to a cleric. (Very nice for a shaman, but they would lose that offense which probably isn't worth)

What I don't understand is why we still aren't using focus 9s, even though I think most people understand they are massively overdue. The hp/mana should reflect the two tier upgrade they are as well.

 

[Nebi]

Sabuti'so post was pretty bad but that doesn't mean the pants are good or where they should be. The int might add OFFENSIVE spell crit depending on current gear setup, which is nice, but minor to a cleric. (Very nice for a shaman, but they would lose that offense which probably isn't worth)

What I don't understand is why we still aren't using focus 9s, even though I think most people understand they are massively overdue. The hp/mana should reflect the two tier upgrade they are as well.

wait a second if 1% crit isnt good for a cleric then why complain about the lack of benefits from offense?

 

[Nebi]

Currently on fights people are finishing them with tons of mana when shamans are around. not sure what people want at this point.

Now Focus 9 I'm sure will come at a higher tier which you guys haven't killed mobs there yet.